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Just say you are an incel dude, it's a lot less words

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It still works, you just have to assume that the saying means your love died lol

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> The saying goes to show that, having experienced love, is a thousand times better than being lonely and not experiencing love. Dating a narcissist has nothing to do with the saying. Either you're an idiot who doesn't understand aphorisms or are the idiot to date an narcissist and not realize it, ergo, obviously wouldn't be able to take the meaning out of a phrase.

/u/TheDevils-GrimReefer, who hurt you?

Why do you go from correcting what may be a stranger misunderstanding a saying, to verbally attacking this person you don’t know and calling them an idiot?

The more I see children like you online, the more I want to take away kids’ cell phones, because they obviously aren’t learning what some would call basic human decency, or what others would consider netiquette.

You can’t be an adult, with this demeanour, and if you are, you must be an unhappy one.

Don’t stoop to their level. They hate themself, not you.

I'm not an incel, I've got 2 kids and a long term partner lol

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Ouch. There’s definitely been a few experiences that left me worse off afterward. I sometimes think maybe the only way we will learn what not to put up with, is by putting up with it until it hurts so bad we no longer can. Still, I’d have preferred to learn the lesson some other way instead.

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Semantics, but there was only the illusion of love. Nothing was lost.

Yep I almost married and had kids with one. Now I have no interest in ever being in a relationship again. She made me deviate from what I was trying to do in life to do what she wanted, and now my life is all screwed up. Luckily I am still young at 33 and have plenty of time to figure it back out. Still will not be dating again or having kids.

The 2 previous girlfriends was definitely a better to loved and lost, since I am even still friends with them... but this recent one completely fucked me up.

I hear you on that, way too much wasted time on a person like that.

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Can somebody explain me what happens in a relationship like this?

I might be one myself without knowing it.

They ruin your life, cheat, lie, use you and spit you out. Then leave and move onto a next victim.

Whoever said the statement definately never dated a narcissit otherwise s/he would known that it is a win not a lost.

Sincerely,

Someone actually dated with a narcissist long enough

Contrary to popular belief, the feelings that you feel are indeed real and do exist.

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Let the church say AMEN. and let us follow up with HELL NAWWWWW. 🙅🏾‍♀️

Love is overrated. You wanna have fun, get a woman that is gone when you wake up so you can focus on the more important parts of life. Explore the world, meet new people, learn about new culture and educate yourself.

Found Anrew Tate in the comments

Nah, I'm not that bad.

I had to read this like 10 times to make sure I understood. I never really loved my narc. He just manipulated me into thinking that I did and that I needed him. Never did. Was just young and stupid.

A perfect illusion if you will.

I was in the same boat. Spent 5 years with this chick and even asked for her hand in marriage. When I got out of hs I was gonna go to the navy to do nuclear engineering. I did not and stayed in Texas with her. Then she cheated on me. Then the one after that was way worse emotionally speaking but hey. I'm still standing and getting my shit back on track. I'm young as hell in my early 20's so I got plenty of time at least. Part of me wants to be like you and say fuck it stay single and enjoy myself. The other part wants someone else to share my life with. Hard times nowadays between wanting to be alone or with someone. I guess it's more so not wanting to risk having the same shit happen again like the past 2.

I will say we differ in the aspect of remaining friends. I don't keep my exes as friends. Never has worked out for the best for me. Then again I could just have extremely terrible taste in women. You've indirectly given me some shit to think about. Appreciate it Nero

I didn't remain friends with the other ex's but we reconnected after many years. Actually ironically because the bad ex was posting terrible things about me on social media and knew those things couldn't possibly be true, and reached out to me to make sure I was safe. I was not safe lol.

Guaranteed emotional abuse. Look up Cycle of Abuse.

They lovebomb you, get bored, get mean, hurt, apologize with lovebombing, get bored, get mean...

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"Hey, hey! I only dated that guy. I never said I loved him." Is the vibe I'm getting from your phrasing. Excellent point though.

I think it works because if you love a narcissist and lose them, it’s typically better for you, hopefully you learn something, and you choose better partners next time.

I think the idea holds true for the same reason that it’s true that you get better through failing at things and learning how to do them right.

If you never loved before, you won’t know what to seek or avoid.

You don't "love" a narcissist, you have what's known as Stockholm Syndrome. It's an emotional trauma bonding coping mechanism that allows you to survive the ordeal. Technically, only a narcissist can love themselves.

Stockho Syndrome, it's how we can survive difficult times. Look at the Republican party right now, classic take of people knowing they're wrong but being held hostage by their "loved ones".

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And you clearly haven’t dated me cause if you have, you’ll know they’re right.

Just got dumped a few months ago from an 8-year relationship. I had no idea anything was even wrong until he kicked me out. He switched from a complete sweetheart to a cruel narcissist in a matter of hours (from my perspective, anyway). Even though it was bliss the whole relationship, if I had known it would turn out like this, I would have run far, far away from the very start. That motherfucker broke me.

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I wasn't as lucky as you. I married her and had kids. She convinced me to leave my 10 year career, cash out my 401k and said we were going to move to hawaii.

Shortly after my 401k hit the account, I found out she was cheating and she took the kids and half my 401k.

I'm 34, but I don't feel as lucky as you. haha

Wow. Yep that's what she is doing to her current boyfriend. He is fucked and thinks everything is fine.

That's when you play the song "Yes - Owner of a lonely heart"

I bet she was hot as hell

She was alright. I fell in love with her kids and wanted them to have a good life more than anything. She told me all the time that I would not have been with her if she didn't have them and she was right.

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I dated one and she lied to the cops and got me locked up as a kid. How does that even happen? They said it was a domestic dispute so it held more weight. She ended up writing a letter saying it was bs. My family was $20,000 down and I was traumatized in juvi and the prison system. Its so hard to trust people now.

I’m waiting on the apologize with love bombing stage. I can’t help it, I need it.

My mom is a narcissist, but my dad will never leave her. She’s a drunk as an added bonus. Growing up around that sucked. My sister and I were constantly gaslit into believing that we were to blame for her rage and pain. I still have problems knowing when I should be upset in my own marriage. To her credit she never hit us, but the mind games were probably just as bad.

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You can still love someone and not be in love.

Isn’t that the truth. Still recovering from the trauma a few years later. Then somehow I managed to find the most wonderful and loving partner. It’s like for my pain, the universe rewarded me with something better than I imagined. It’s hard, but it’s not the end. Hugs ❤️

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They create this toxic cycle of high highs and low lows and it’s literally like an addiction

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Just like whoever thought up “money can’t buy happiness” has never been dirt poor

Not always true. You can fall in love with a narcissist who is good at masking, then have your heart broken when they reveal their true colors. It happened to me in high school.

I just got out in a relationship with a narcissist, it was full of manipulative tactics, there was a lot of blame-shifting mostly and love bombing. I was pretty much neglected for the whole relationship, and my mental health just got worse and im still dealing with the trauma she left me.

For anyone that also dated a narcissist, leaving them gained you peace and remember that its a win for you!

Especially learning to identify toxic traits

I've dated a narcissist. We only dated a month. When we broke up I didn't stop smiling for two and a half years. I can think of very few things that have made me as happy as dumping her ass.

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I agree with this. Coming up on one year of leaving my ex narcissist who love bombed me and revealed his true evil colors that ended in physical abuse and a restraining order. Some days I wish it never happened, but now I know how to spot a narcissist and run far away before they can manipulate and hurt me.

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I love this statement. The pain of learning that everything was fake has been difficult to overcome but I’d rather have not had this love cause love is mutual, not one-sided.

Idk, maybe I'm blessed or just gaslit, but it looks like everyone on reddit has a narcissist parent. Probably why we are here in the first place

If a narcissist reflects your personality back at you. You kinda fell in love with yourself... You still have you. You can find acceptance and love yourself again. After that what would you have lost?

Omfg no they clearly did not. Was the worst mistake of my LIFE.

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>I think the idea holds true for the same reason that it’s true that you get better through failing at things and learning how to do them right.

Yes and no. I mean it’s impossible to go through life without pain and heartbreak and intentionally avoiding it is probably going to be worse cause you’ll miss out on so many wonderful opportunities but what about the trauma that develops through caring about someone that see’s gestures of love as weakness they can exploit?

Totally agree. I fell like a moron in a one sided relationship with a egotistical spoiled woman child.

She decided she had to have me, did all she could to achieve her result, told me she loved me after 2 weeks and that i was the man of her life within a month.

The first time i sat her down to discuss sonething that was worrying me about her behaviour (she was forcing my hand in the direction of spending time with her family without asking me directly), she refused any discussion, refused to acknowledge my feelings and needs.

I just wanted to know if a strong tie between her family and us as a couple was something she neeeded because I come from a very indipendent family and it would have been "weird" for me. Never said I was against it but I was not ok with her sneakily beinging me in that direction.

After having said these things she just literally refused any discussion, told me i was insensitive and false, mean and literally left me there and gave me the silence treatment without even being decent enough to say we re through.

After that reconciliation, because I caved and accepted that she was not doing at all what I claimed, said i m sorry and so it was like nothing happened. Again she started lovebombing, and again, sure enough, after a while started sneakily pushing her own agenda with me, which made me sit her down to get insight and clarification, which again resulted in her losing interest, her stop communicating, and some times even in her actively boycotting our relationship by doing things she knows for sure would make me un happy about being with her.

Basically they are only able to love someone who is the exact same as them in any sense.

Do you think she drinks as a way to escape the shame of her narcissistic ways that like 99% of them just sweep under the rug?

Im convinced there are so many I diagnosed narcissists that don’t even know they have it. It seems as common as introverts/extroverts. Like at what point is something a disorder and at what point is it just a fundamental nature of human being?

How do you spot it?

How did he do that?

Yeah but you have a pretty level headed and positive way to view the situation and not everyone has developed that trait.

Honestly my marriage to a narcissist almost ended me. Almost. Still working through the damage.

Whoever said that clearly hadn't been broken to the state of suicide by someone they love.

They ain't ever bought Hot Wheels either.

It's still better. At least you see how you shouldn't act in relationship.

Lets call it experiance :)

Narcissism is the current buzzword explaining all bad partners. Too broad to be useful.

>Like at what point is something a disorder and at what point is it just a fundamental nature of human being?

Are the two mutually exclusive?

It is better to have loved and lost a narcissist than to have never lost them at all.

There's a difference between have some narcissistic traits, and being a full blown narcissist, who justify their behavior, rather than being shamed by it.

Yeah, I find it a bit similar to the truism “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”. Sometimes it doesn’t make you stronger but just gives you trauma.

It's still better. Shitty experiences are always better than no experiences. There's always something to learn.

Although my relationship was beyond nightmarish and the pain caused unimaginable, I’d still agree with the first statement.

It's pretty fucked for the kids too being raised by a narcissist. I'm paying for it all right now.. you really dodged a bullet rocket there let me tell you.

Edit: had to emphasise the bullet you dodged..

Tennyson said it, and he was talking about friendship, not romantic love.

What about being so traumatised you don't get to have another relationship?

I've personally found it very hard to fall in love with a person who's too in love with themselves to notice me.

Narcissism is a spectrum from healthy self love to destructive. It's ridiculously over-diagnosed by people that have no clue.

I dont think you know what that quote means. I also dont think you were in the type of love this quote is addressing if, breaking up didn't suck and if you didnt like them.

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Yea i dont think it means the thing people are talking about it like it does.

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What he switched from was the mask to his true self.

Yep, I pretty much had the same attitude, into my 40s never had a bad breakup with a partner, never regretted a relationship, friends with most my exes. But with this one, blew through a bunch of red flags but they really wanted to stay with me, so figured what's the worst that can happen? I almost didn't survive the aftermath of the breakup. To rest of you with a similar experience, I'm really sorry and hope you recover.

So true. It's insane the amount of time it's thrown around as a buzzword.

I thought the saying was "it's better to have loved and lost than to have listened to an album by Olivia Newton John"

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In fairness, the love he describes throughout the poem is most likely romantic love, it just happened to be written about a friend.

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Covert narcissists are really dangerous because they’re so much harder to detect until you’re in too deep.

It's a butchered quote by an actual narcissist. The original quote is: "It is better to have loved me and lost me, than to have never loved me at all. So, I guess you can show yourself out now."

I think she drinks because even at 60 years of age, she still doesn’t know who she really is. She projects a person she wishes she was to other people, but that person isn’t her, and as a result she is never comfortable in her own skin. So she numbs that negative affect with drinking.

It’s easy to expose by just trying to have a real conversation with her. Ask her how something makes her feel. What she likes to do, etc. you will see the simulation for what it is.

Definitely ended up dating a narcissist when I told myself, "OK, let me date for personality and not looks this time."

That shit put me in a year and a half funk...

I didn't even know what a narcissist truly was until a few years ago, but finding out that is what she was, was a huge relief for my self esteem.

Everyone around me loves hanging around, and has good things to say if they aren't just screwing around. Then she comes in and had a bunch of bad shit to say, but that she believed I could change.

While I'm doing a bit shitty after, I had mutual friends share she's making a shit ton of money at a major tech company. It's what she loved the most, money and status.

She doesn’t drink because she a narcissist, but she definitely thinks her own emotions and feelings on any matter are more important than everyone else’s.

Most recently, my sister broke up with her BF of five years and my mom liked the dude a lot. She felt hurt when my sister ended things and took it out on her. This was months ago and she still says awful things to her about it. Not once did she ever think to console her or understand why the relationship ended. She made it about her. This is what she does.

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That phrase was originally coined spoken towards the fabulously wealthy families of the early 1900s, who had enough money to buy the world, but kept screwing people for more. It was an admonishment that more money won't make you happy, so why not help your fellow man? It has been perverted in to the opposite meaning. Now it is said to poor people that they shouldn't demand fairness in life because you can't just go out and buy happiness. Yes, but try being happy without money, without food on the table or accessible medicine.

Same for me. My ex wife, a terrible, narcissistic human. Miserable relationship the entire 10+ years. She cheated on me, took a lot of money and assets in the divorce and somehow left me with her debt on the way out. Still can’t fully trust in a relationship, don’t think I ever 100% will again. But the universe finally did allow me to find my perfect person, and my girlfriend is every kind of wonderful I could’ve wanted. Sucks to have had to go through a decade of pain, manipulation and trauma… but I’m glad I’ve finally found happiness.

I feel this, so Fucking much. Wasted 6 years of my life on a man who would constantly belittle me, emotionally abused me, cheated, lied, manipulated, all of the terrible things people do. No matter what I did, I was a useless piece of crap. I dropped out of nursing school, went through multiple jobs, lost touch with friends and family - all to put him first and make sure HIS needs were met while he couldn’t even give me affection or attention on a regular basis. It got to the point where I literally wanted to die rather than live without him, because I couldn’t bring myself to leave. I couldn’t sever the ties no matter how bad he treated me. Sadly, I had a gun in my mouth more than once. I thank god and whatever powers that are above that I didn’t do it, because my life is SO much better 4 months post breakup. For anyone who is going through the same shit, please just know it gets better. It’s never worth putting yourself last for someone else.

People really got to stop just throwing the word narcissist out there defining anyone that doesn't give us what we want. I'm sure you have your reasons but unless we know everything about the other person's childhood we can't really just say they are narcissist.

Lol

Where in my post did I say the term should be thrown around lightly? Or that it should be applied to numerous people ?

Yeah I think that saying really depends on the quality of the love. Like you said the two first ones were actually good.

Narcissists typical don’t feel shame. That’s the thing. So my totally uninformed guess is: No, probably not.

I made peace with my (ex who’s a) narcissist. I learned how to spot one. I learned how to be vigilant about selfish traits in myself. I learned how a person should and should not be treated in a healthy relationship.

And, as far as I can tell, my narcissist learned nothing. She’s truly blind to the fact that it’s her own behavior which is holding her back the most, and that’s what I find most hurtful. I want her to move on and find someone else and be happy but unless she identifies her narcissistic behavior as the source of her continuous relationship failures, she’ll never learn to love unconditionally, which I find sad.

Narcissists make me sad. Deep down they’re so traumatized and insecure, that they can’t be genuine and let their true vulnerable selves through. Instead it’s all a front of their perfect false self that is 100% self focused and unable to meaningfully connect with other human beings.

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Narcissists have a love bombing phase where they reel their victims in, making them feel like they’re loved and cherished. Other things to take note of once they have you in the trap and the mask is off are superiority, making everything a competition, extreme jealousy, gaslighting, belittling, name-calling, weaponizing your past mistakes, never apologizing…the list goes on. Not all of this means they are narcissistic but it absolutely can be a sign.

Trauma is for weaklings, their problem.

This is a hilarious joke so I’m not sure while you are getting downvoted.

I'm currently in a situation where I have no idea what to do because I'd rather die then leave them, but I dont feel appreciated, or like I matter.

It doesn't help that I've known this person for 9 years and they arent the same person I fell in love with and I'm constantly worried they're going to get themselves hurt or do something to hurt me... but I cant leave them because I cant live without them. And I know if I left it would destroy them and I still care about them.

Ooh, that’s terrible. I’m happy you also found a better partner!

Love can truely be a double edged sword. Not wanting to leave, and not wanting to live without, is an intense place to be. I am happy you were able to get out mostly "unharmed". I know some trauma may be there, but fellow human I am glad you are alive and now doing well.

Trauma isn't for "weaklings", it's how you move past it and it can build character in one's self even though it's a painful experience. Everyone goes through trauma some point in there life.

You know the term "costs you and arm and leg". You can also equate it to this situation. The relationship is to costly and takes a part of you. This term came after WW2 where war was so costly soldiers came back with no limbs. I know the comparisons seems strange; but I do believe you lose a bit of yourself in these toxic relationships.

No, trauma is the state where the person still didn't get over it. Gettin over trauma is building characters, not tze trauma itself.

Trauma is the experience of loss; that's why grieving is the process of overcoming that. Going through trauma, then being able to grieve is the process of building character.

Trauma isn't just about a loss. Definition says: "a deeply distressing or disturbing experience"

So for example if you are a part of a car accident, where everyone survives just having light injuries, you can get trauma so you won't like traveling in a car. You can get truma for actually stupid things sometimes (like falling off of a bicycle), and that's a sign of being psychically weak.

Nonetheless, it's an experience. You still have that loss of feeling safe in a car now, it changes your experience even if it's a "light but traumatic" accident. There are different forms of trauma as well. You speak of physical trauma (damage). But there is emotional abuse, physical abuse, etc that can traumatize you and affect your character. It has repercussions. That's why things like Stockholm Syndrome exist.

The whole time Iam talking about psychical trauma, I just couldn't think of different examples. And Stockholm syndrome has nothing to do with trauma.

Stockholm syndrome is caused by trauma.

Nope

I’ve seen that happen a lot but after 8 years? Usually after about 6 months you’ll know who a person really is, but 8 years and then a sudden 180 seems odd

Probably by narcissists.

Yes. They’re mad someone would dare suggest relationship failures are their fault, rather than our failures to meet up to the narcissist’s expectations. It’s not me, it’s you.

You just described my childhood. Therapy helps.

I'm sure it's different for women, but words hurt more than fists, IMO.

My mom once asked me if I ever thought about how much it hurt her to watch me go through a divorce. I was so shocked that I couldn't even form a reply.

If you had a loved one that was dying from cancer, would you rail on them because they never recognized how hard it was to watch them going through it, as if that was more horrible than actually being the one dying from cancer?

This is my mom.

Stealing this one.

Of course you're being downvoted. Of course. The truth hurts.

My marriage took a huge 180 about 5 years in. She started verbally abusing me all the time. Always putting me down, always looking for the tiniest excuse to blow up at me. It was so sudden that I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. I tried to think of what i did that was so bad but there wasn't anything. I think she wanted me to do it back so she would have an excuse to end it but I wouldn't return the hate. The problem was we were living in her parents house so I was the one who had to leave when she asked for a divorce. My father in law was my biggest supporter but he got lung cancer and died within six months. With him out of the way, the rest of her family turned on me and I was out of the house and homeless. It took years to recover from that.

Money can't buy happiness. But it sure as hell can eliminate a lot of things that prevent you from being happy.