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Impossible-Heart-540 t1_j5uonix wrote

It’s predominantly a supply problem. We’re literally 50th of 50 states in housing starts per capita.

  1. Our local municipalities fight tooth and nail against any zoning changes that might let more building happen - especially denser/transit oriented developments that might be good starter homes.

  2. Our cost of labor is comparable to Boston, while our prices (aka profit margins for developers) aren’t as good as Boston’s - so the math is harder.

  3. We also have a labor shortage.

There is no short term fix for those in the market right now, save buying in a marginal neighborhood that you see transitioning so your home value appreciates more quickly.

I can only say people in the legislature are trying to push more regional thinking to alleviate the problem. The fights over Single Family Zoning have real consequences for homeowners impacted and I can sympathize, but they also impact young people who can’t afford a house and stay here.

I am sorry.

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mommy2boy OP t1_j5uybwd wrote

Thank you for explaining it in a way I can actually understand!

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mzzy_ozborne t1_j5vnyf0 wrote

Urban planning in general in the States is dog shit. And the few areas that are dense in homes, businesses, walkable you have to be making close to or six figures +. Realistically speaking, this notion that everybody should and will live in a single family house is absurd and environmentally unsustainable. I would love to see new construction based on grid designs you would find in Europe

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Impossible-Heart-540 t1_j5vxry8 wrote

I’m a fan of European planning myself, but we have historically had more space, had fewer feudal land owners, had more powerful local governments, had a stronger emphasis on property rights, had multiple (sometimes antagonistic) cultures, and we became wealthy just as the automobile was in ascension.

Not surprisingly, like every other civilization since the beginning of time, our circumstances determined how we built.

It isn’t because we’re idiots.

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Squidworth89 t1_j5x7jsc wrote

Stronger emphases on property rights and stronger local governments shouldn’t go together.

Death to zoning.

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Impossible-Heart-540 t1_j5z3pn6 wrote

I’m not sure people should be allowed to do whatever they want with their property.🤷🏼‍♂️

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/26/opinion/arizona-water-colorado-river-saudi-arabia.html

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cowperthwaite t1_j6465dc wrote

Property rights and water rights in the west are two very, very different things.

A more appropriate 1-to-1 would have been Houston, which has no zoning laws.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Weirdest-images-from-Houston-s-lack-of-zoning-laws-9171688.php#photo-10794964

https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/houston-doesnt-have-zoning-there-are-workarounds

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sonickid101 t1_j5xorrj wrote

Zoning rights should go hand in hand with property rights the government shouldn't be able to tell you what you can and can't do with your own property otherwise you never really own anything your just renting from the government the same argument for property taxes which also happens to be theft.

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Impossible-Heart-540 t1_j5yog5r wrote

I think a lot of people start with this point of view.

But then we get old and it gets pointed out to us that our property is worth more (aka our wealth is greater) if it can be accessed by a publicly paid for road, can be saved by a publicly paid for fire company, can be protected by a publicly paid for police department, and my family can be supported by a publicly paid for school district.

Nevermind the the time I save not having to go to the dump, or the safety of publicly paid for sidewalks, and monitored water systems.

All of which is paid for by property taxes.

Really what we should be focusing on is value for taxes and whether revenues are shepherded well, not whether they should exist. Absolutists don’t like to hear it, but socializing some expenses via taxes actually does make us all richer.

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sonickid101 t1_j64taxy wrote

All of those functions could be done far cheaper, and better in the private sector. Roads should be privatized paid for and maintained by advertising just like dominos was filling in potholes and putting their logo on it a couple years back.

Our roads are in horrible shape with so many potholes its like driving on the surface of the moon if you drive through a Walmart parking lot even one that takes multiple large truck deliveries a day its pristine. Plus if a road was privately owned people wouldn't put up with the conditions they put up with now with the government. Because you have no choice with the government you can't boycott a government without moving but you can boycott a business. Fire companies used to be private and even today often volunteer. They used to compete for who could get to a fire faster to put it out paid out by private insurance. Government took it over and they unionized and expenses ballooned. I would know my dad was a firefighter in Providence for 25 years.

You mean police who shoot teenagers in cars and have 0 accountability. I'd rather defund the police and have my own firearms to protect me and the ability to hire private security if I need to who I can fire if they do a bad job or bring disrepute. Where do you feel safer the dark alley in providence at 3am that's the purview of the government police, or the nightclub full of drunk people with the bouncer?

Public schools that indoctrinate and groom your kids rather than homeschooling that allows kids to learn at their own pace often graduating 1-2 years before other children. Or private schooling that everyone agrees is better quality. All of which would be cheaper Taxation is theft, the government creates a problem and then steals from you purporting to be the only solution to it.

running out of time to type this much will have to do.

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Impossible-Heart-540 t1_j652wrv wrote

Whatever we write on Reddit.com, property taxes are here to stay, so energy is probably better spent on analyzing value for spending and ways to tweak formulas for better results rather than arguing abstractions.🤷🏼‍♂️

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sonickid101 t1_j65qnq2 wrote

The Libertarian Party of Rhode Island is actively working on cultivating candidates that will if elected eliminate as much taxation as possible so it's not just an abstraction similar things are happening nationwide eventually the abstraction will become policy.

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PalatioEstateEsq t1_j66m738 wrote

You have clearly never driven down the private Center of New England road. Private owners don't shell out money to fix roads that people need to, or are accustomed to, use regularly. Acting like private companies who are beholden to shareholders will do the "right" thing is ridiculous.

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sonickid101 t1_j66yy48 wrote

I've been there I go to the Denny's there a bunch. The developer of the Centre of New England had plans to build a six-lane road connecting the two ends of the boulevard, but when he went into receivership in 2013, the project came to a halt. Eventually, that will get sorted out and the new owner will probably maintain the property. On average e.g. not in special cases like this people tend to take better care of things they privately own rather than the tragedy of the commons with public property. Just like people don't take a rental through a car wash but people will lovingly hand wash their mustang in the driveway. Sure someone might neglect their shitbox until it hits a junkyard but then someone else will buy up the scrap and do something with it. The government won't do anything proactive it will only react if someone raises a stink at least when it comes to maintenance. Also, the government has incentives for grifts, bribes, and favors for any of its projects increasing prices and reducing quality. Whereas a private owner has the incentive to get the best quality for the lowest cost.

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buffymiffington t1_j5x94dy wrote

So well-stated! I work for a state office. The pushback from municipalities is REAL. The House of Representatives has said it will be announcing a package of housing this year. Multiple towns have already opposed it - and it isn’t even out yet! They don’t even know what the legislation is or any details, and they’re opposing it.

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Zachary055 t1_j5ybn20 wrote

I watch some local town council meetings and I see that towns push back hard for the local zoning changes. I hear a lot that “the state is trying to control us”. When the new ADU legislation rolled out I hear some are trying to block it from happening. What is this new legislation you speak about going to do?

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samskeyti_ t1_j63o1d9 wrote

Yep, Senator Gordon Rogers already went to Foster because he is trying to get the rural towns to hire a lobbyist to fight back… meanwhile when I canvass out here a lot of people are frustrated they can’t have ADU’s.

sigh

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buffymiffington t1_j66ob5w wrote

Tell people to contact their elected official. Honestly, they do listen. Senators and Reps get very reactive if they hear the same thing from multiple people in their district.

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samskeyti_ t1_j66oehk wrote

Senator Rogers is my elected official.

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buffymiffington t1_j66ohfg wrote

Ouch. Who’s your Rep?

Edited to add: would people consider a petition? Like do you think there are enough folks to band together and sign something? That could also spur some action.

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samskeyti_ t1_j66ojqx wrote

Quattrocchi. :D /s

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buffymiffington t1_j66ow6h wrote

Oh man. I’m sorry.

Yeah, a petition might be your best bet. Another option is sending written testimony to the House and Senate about the legislation. You may not be able to get your rep/senator to vote the way you’d like, but it would get your point across to the other folks on the committee.

ETA: town council? A lot of zoning issues are enacted at the local level. The more granular the level of govt, the more reactive they usually are to feedback.

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samskeyti_ t1_j66p7pb wrote

Yeah, I’ve been up to the state house a few times to give public testimony… good times. I have good rapport with other members of the GA… it’s just hard when your elected officials are… the way they are. I have a good rapport with the town council… and tbh I think there may be an OMA violation with how it was handled in foster… we will see.

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buffymiffington t1_j66qdnu wrote

Yeah, doing public testimony is a pain, but you can do written too. And yeah, that does suck. Do they win by a significant margin? Other option is running someone against them.

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