This is RI. We will be funding some politician or contractor’s home improvements and vacations with those tolls.

Perhaps that’s how it used to be however, technology exists to make the transactions and funds all publicly viewable. It is not rocket science and if people want to stop having to invest in new tires or having their undercarriage damaged… it needs be done. Otherwise enjoy the indefinite depreciation I guess.

I guess you are being downvoted by people who like their fReEdOm.

I didn’t grow up in RI but I live here now. Driving more than 30 minutes doesn’t bother me. I don’t want to pay to leave/enter this very small state.

Don't kid yourself, that's going to happen in any state.

[deleted]

stop stealing our hard earned money — something is seriously wrong when 40% of a state works for some type of government

>visiting a “developing country” with better roads than our state

Most of those places don't have our winter weather which is apparently peculiarly perfect for creating potholes as some expert once patiently explained in this sub but I didn't retain the details. If we were farther north or farther south or farther inland, it wouldn't be anything like as bad, I gather.

(My rescue dog came from a remote village in central Mexico. As a one year old, he was driven a 1000 miles to the border, then in cargo from San Diego across country. Met him the next morning and he was sunny as ever! -- until the last short leg, from Warwick to Providence in my friend's van hitting every pothole that rattled the shit out of him, poor chap 😣)

The winters are going to destroy the roads no matter what. Nothing to do with fReDoM

After the complete failure of the truck tolls where RI was forecast to lose money and put them up anyway, spending 2 dollars for every dollar collected I don't think Rhode Island Politicians should feel they can discuss tolls at all. They screwed the state proudly and intentionally.

Things that still need to be discussed due to this failure:

The "revenue" was supposed to pay for RhodeWorks and 100's of millions have been spent on that program

Is the money going to have to go back to the truckers?

RI screwed itself good this time, and now the politician who pushed it is Commerce Secretary. Nice work Rhode Island.

There are tolls for speeders in school zones and people who go through red lights on almost every corner. Money is not the issue.

Most states that have tolls don't have income or sales tax. Thanks to the voters, RI is already a tax hell. We can't take any more taxes.

Until this State can satisfactorily manage the money they already get from most of us then I feel no inclination to give them more. Fuck tolls.

Money is fungible. I don’t want them having access to any more.

There are states with worse winters than ours, that have infinitely better roads.

NY and NJ disagree with this and tax heavily and toll heavily.

I’ve driven through many developing countries, but Chile(which is pretty well fully developed now) has toll roads, and they are great, even up into the Andes. Other ODEC countries with tolls have good and bad roads, France has private tolls, but nice roads with 130/140 KPH roads. Germany, no tolls, amazing roads, many unrestricted parts. Japan’s roads are great, but their public transit is also amazing. I think it comes down to priorities, greed, corruption levels, and driver care. If the driving public is kind, drives safely, no over weight trucks, and the government works for the ppl, you’ll get nice roads. RI and the USA in general are not the best drivers, the politicians don’t prioritize road safety, smoothness. We also don’t have much gas tax in RI compared to most countries, which lowers the amount in the pot.

There's a lot to unpack here but some quick points.

• I'd bet anything that developing country doesn't have four distinct seasons, including a six month period where the temperature can fluctuate from well below freezing to above 60 degrees Fahrenheit in a week. Unless that changes or we dramatically reduce the size or volume of vehicles, there's never going to some point where potholes don't exist, roads don't need to be resurfaced, etc.
• A lot of that perpetual construction is making up for decades of neglect or decades-old poor design. You seem to be suggesting there's all of this work being done because we're not funding roads properly, but the counter-point is: where do you think the money for that work is coming from exactly?
• There's never been any question of tolls on the ballot that I'm aware of, much less multiple times. It's not a popular idea for plainly obvious reasons. Hell, some people steadfastly opposed the truck tolling that is done solely because they saw it as a gateway for car tolls.
• Right now, that same usage tax is covered by the state / federal gas taxes. As fuel economy improves and hybrids and EVs become more common, it's pretty inevitable that tolls or a mileage tax will replace them. That's not a Rhode Island thing, thats an everywhere thing within the next few decades.

I think you’re underestimating how much people associate RI government with corruption. At the moment, the state is not much worse than most states (and considerable better than some) but even within my own lifetime that wasn’t the case. RI was one of the biggest pay-to-play states in the whole country at least through the 90’s. “Plunderdome” helped root out a lot of it but once trust is lost on that level it takes a very, very long time to regain.

But I wonder if their road networks were laid out in the 18th century

42 states have income tax. 46 states have sales tax. 38 states have at least some toll roads.

Rhode Island is very middle of the pack in weighted tax rates (accounting for everything), income tax rate, sales tax rate, etc.

If you're just going to make shit up, I suggest trying it somewhere other than the place where it'd take about 60 seconds for someone to call bullshit.

Okay I’ll bite. Why?

Those are traffic cameras that ticket people. They are not tolls.

I believe it’s because our soil is so sandy compared to other states.

And I’ve lived in both : remember their roads very fondly despite way worse traffic than we ever have but clearly the people here are against better roads because they don’t believe an accounting practice / technology exists to counter the political corruption. Oh well shrugs.

As an outsider to RI, it’s clear to see that many old school RI’ers are resistant to change, or are so scared because of corruption 30/40 years ago. My road is absolutely torn up, but the town has no money to pay for it, or so they say.

Yea, why?

Doesn't it have something to do with the construction materials we buy as a state? I remember someone saying that the asphalt type we purchase has a weaker composition than other new england states and deteriorates quicker when combined with salt and freezing temperatures.

Correct. Either way it’s a profit to the city on a big level. Pawtucket made more than 4.5 million between 6/21 and 4/22.

I think since the tractor trailer toll didn’t go so well, they are probably gonna off put it off for a couple years.

Yes, so we'd better not fund adequate repairs! Makes sense!!

Lived here since 1982, so yeah, I know you are right. But one way you earn trust is by fixing the roads. It's cute to nod knowingly and wink when someone mentions corruption, but that just reinforces the prior "oh well, can't do anything!" attitudes. (I'm not saying you have that attitude, but most people do around here.)

Do away with sales tax and we can talk about tolls

I prefer to think of it as an asshole tax.

Isn't that a bit arbitrary? in a system like ours, there's never going to be a point where everyone decides that something is satisfactory.

Tolls are an awful idea. Jesus.

If we want the 100,000 lb trucks to pay almost $10 dollars

we could pay 25 cents for our 2,500 lb cars - -

that would be deemed fair in a court battle

>If we want the 100,000 lb trucks to pay almost $10 dollars
>
>we could pay 25 cents for our 2,500 lb cars - -
>
>that would be deemed fair in a court battle

We already proved charging $20 for truck crossing RI accomplishes a loss equal to double the money received.. To tax cars and lose even more money would be so idiotic even a Rhode Islander must be able to proclaim its stupidity.

[deleted]

They implemented a gas tax years ago to fund fixing roads and bridges, they implemented the lottery to fund education, As you can see the roads suck, the schools suck, and Toll roads would just give them more money to pass along to their friends!

They did away with a 10 cent toll on a bridge to Aquidneck Island years ago, thanks to political pressure. So the daily users of that bridge (I think it was Mount Hope) spread the maintenance cost of the bridge to the rest of the state, including many people who will never, ever cross that bridge in a car. It's ridiculous that we don't toll the people actually using the roads, while the many (mostly urban dwelling) taxpayers who don't drive are forced to pay for them through taxes.

Except now with Distributed Ledger Technology on open source blockchains it becomes impossible to steal funds without it being obvious to anyone who desires to audit it.

>After the complete failure of the truck tolls where RI was forecast to lose money and put them up anyway, spending 2 dollars for every dollar collected I don't think Rhode Island Politicians should feel they can discuss tolls at all. They screwed the state proudly and intentionally.

I'm not really aware of any projections to lose money but the state made millions of dollars in profit after accounting for install costs, legal fees, etc. I think the total revenue was like 100 million.

We could spend years appealing the decision and still be in the black financially on the project.

​

>The "revenue" was supposed to pay for RhodeWorks and 100's of millions have been spent on that program

It's $100,000,000 in revenue. Construction and the maintenance/management cost was estimated to be about $70,000,000 over the course of a decade. This still came out ahead.

​

>Is the money going to have to go back to the truckers?

The existing ruling says nothing of the sort and the lawsuit didn't even ask for that. That has never been a risk.

Um no... the original Rhodeworks number over 4 billion is listed in the article. The 40 million has never been achieved Net or Gross. To get closer they use the total including Newport bridge and thats not broken out well, at least 6 million there not counting expenses.

In fact there where no less than five articles available about the losses by tolling before Gina got promoted, now you need to go through the reports yourself and very quickly if you look past the glossy papers you will find like most state issues the numbers don't much the discussion or really even come close. We owe the toll company at least 4 million a year, that gets a little cloudy. We paid 70 million for the gantries but that did not include "all" of the costs. Just what they installed, more likely 100 million total buy in for set up.

​

https://www.rilegislature.gov/pressrelease/_layouts/RIL.PressRelease.ListStructure/Forms/DisplayForm.aspx?List=c8baae31%2D3c10%2D431c%2D8dcd%2D9dbbe21ce3e9&ID=12850&Web=2bab1515%2D0dcc%2D4176%2Da2f8%2D8d4beebdf488

All tolls and photo radar devices can catch ice picks to their grills