Submitted by TransporterOffline t3_1066cf8 in Pennsylvania
Comments
just_an_ordinary_guy t1_j3fuooz wrote
I'd prefer if they keep nominating obvious losers.
defusted t1_j3fvfei wrote
Me too lol
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gmpep wrote
1% of democrat and 1.8% of republican mail in ballots were discarded, per the numbers in the article.
The headline is intentionally deceptive.
Using the date in the article, republicans were 1.8x more likely to have their mail in ballot canceled.
5illy_billy t1_j3gztpn wrote
Another way of saying this is that since relatively few republicans voted by mail, the ones who did (against the “advice” of republican leaders btw) were more likely to have their ballot thrown out.
It’s almost like.. they knew a bunch of mail in ballots would be discarded.. because they wrote the laws.. and promoted conspiracies to discourage their voters from casting votes by mail..
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h12hj wrote
What “they” know - both sides - is that relative to in-person voting, a small percent will vote with mail in ballots.
In this case under 2%.
The politicians themselves and their campaign people know this….
They know in the vast majority of districts mail-in ballots are inconsequential to the results. They always have been and most likely will continue to be statistically insignificant because they make up such a small amount of overall votes.
They also know that by commenting on these issues in the press, and pretending like there is significant vote fraud or that a significant amount of ballots are discarded - they can galvanize their political base, get more financial contributions, and increase in-person voting.
glberns t1_j3h338j wrote
What are you talking about?
Mail in ballots were 23% of all ballots in the 2022 election.
TransporterOffline OP t1_j3h69ht wrote
I've seen your copy-pasted responses all over this page, so I have to ask. What is the more appropriate headline? Literally, the majority of all mail ballots that were rejected were from Democrats. I agree on your 1% and 1.8% numbers, but what does this really mean?
Let's take your numbers and make new headlines:
- Commonwealth election officials wonder if Republicans are too dumb to vote with mail ballots
- Republican mail ballots discarded at alarming rate (nearly twice that of Democrat ballots!!)
- 1%-2% of mail-in ballots rejected in PA due to procedural issues
- Democrats vote with mail-in ballots at 5x the rate of Republicans
Like seriously this was about the most factual, non-inflammatory headline they could have chosen. Instead, why don't you look past the headline (like you beg others in the comments) and make some real commentary? What do these numbers mean? Or do you just plan to copy the same thing over and over and over in this thread? You can't just say "they're pushing a narrative guys!!" and not say what the narrative is. WHAT is the deception?
Edit to add: If anything, this article gave the people exactly what they needed: transparency in the operations of mail-in voting. We know exactly how many were rejected and for what reasons. And those reasons were litigated well in advance of this election up to the Supreme Court and advertised here for everyone to learn from for the next election. All parties had the same rules applied to them, and these numbers were the outcome. There's no "narrative" to be had.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3hbgf5 wrote
They could have said "98+% of 1.2 million ballots processed error free in PA mid-term election".
That would have been a much more neutral statement that conveyed the raw number of votes and the percent of them that had issues.
The AP intentionally used the word "majority" - which can mean anything from 50.1% upto 100% of 16,000 number. They new exactly what they were doing. Based on the comments on here, most people read it EXACTLY how they intended....
Read it, get outraged, hopefully click on the article. Most people here stopped at step 2.
TransporterOffline OP t1_j3hcnfi wrote
And now I think you and I fully agree. I think the headline even mentioning Democrats was slanted from the beginning, but the article was quite neutral. And yes a lot of the comments in this thread really missed the point, especially claiming it's a form of voter suppression, but like I said in my edit to my comment above, this is exposure to the risks and rules of the system so people will actually learn from the mistakes. Too many people hating the game instead of learning the game's rules. Voting is not political. Politics are political, and a lot of people can't separate the two. Unfortunately that's mostly due to partisan meddling in voting itself.
All I wanted was for you to explain your position and I'm glad you took me up on it. I 100% agree.
I would have preferred "Despite warnings from election admins, nearly 2% of mail-in ballots discarded due to voter errors with envelopes, dates" but yours is probably more positive in encouraging people to vote altogether.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3hfkyg wrote
Right. And we cannot let the perfect get in the way of the good.
We should not go around celebrating 1-2% of mail-in ballots being discarded.
We also should acknowledge that voting is a messy process that will have errors when tabulating the results for over 5 million in-person/mail-in votes. A target of 0% errors is noble but impractical.
We should not proclaim that democrats were disenfranchised because of rule following democrats (democratic poll workers in democratic districts) throwing out democrat voter mail-in ballots enforced by republican legislature and the republican leaning supreme court.
=============
An even more cynical discussion would involve the discussion of district by district in-person and mail-in ballots numbers and how counting these ballots won't really change the district based election results and thus the overall election results for the state at large.
TransporterOffline OP t1_j3hiedd wrote
It will be even more difficult to address Postal Service issues also, or at least ballots reaching the office. Unfortunately what I consider to be a given, "we need a national postal service", seems to be a debate these days. I would say all in all, after two major cycles of mail-in balloting, the system seems to be working well.
Redditors by and large are Internet-savvy, but I'm blown away how many people still don't know you can track your ballot status. I'm not faulting anyone in this thread, I'm just saying I thought it was common knowledge. From my perspective, I get tons of TV news segments, articles, emails, postcards, the news flashes about fixing/curing ballots, etc., with mail-in ballot information on a regular basis, so I'm secure in this process. I am still shocked how many have no idea how this works on their own personal level. How many people ask in my local subreddit where their freaking polling station is, people waiting literally till election day to find their voter card or ask if they need an ID to vote, people asking how to check ballot statuses, etc.
I'm grateful how much of the system does work, given all these challenges from the top of the pyramid down to the individual voter.
SolutionsExistInPast t1_j3hyl3t wrote
Hello TransporterOffline and ScienceWasLove,
Nice job between you both that a question can be asked and a persons head does not get blown off in response.
As for the headline first impression without reading the article was…
- Ok all those ballets tossed and Americans were still voted in.”
After reading Sciences clarification I then knew how many, by percentage, both parties had tossed because it was not only 1 party.
With the title saying only one party name the unscrupulous Americans will then use that headline to say that one party is guilty, see how many ballots were rejected, when in reality, both parties had ballots rejected and nobody’s guilty of anything.
The best title would be: 16k+ Pennsylvanian Mail-In Ballots Rejected because PA. Residents Cannot Follow Directions.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3hcwvb wrote
I also agree. The article does present most of the information. The problem is not even the title.
Most people understand that titles/headlines are attention grabbing, click bait.
The problem, as I see it, is that majority of Redditors take the implied meaning of the headline as the summary of the entire article.
As your proposed headlines show, the actual content in the article gives much better and nuanced understanding of the voting patterns.
I can easily say "duh, most democrats can't read anyways, no wonder a majority of their mail ballots were thrown out" using the headline. Using my 1.8x times stat, I could say "duh, most republicans, can't read anyways".
___Dan___ t1_j3h5ap9 wrote
It’s also deceptive for you to say that without giving us the total number of mail in ballots. If a greater fraction of voters used mail on the dem side that changes the takeaway. So you’re just as bad as whoever wrote the headline.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h5toa wrote
From the article, around 1.2 million. True.
just-kath t1_j3gq45k wrote
Many if not Most headlines are deceptive.
sunflakie t1_j3guvld wrote
/r/savedyouaclick
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gqixg wrote
It’s true. What’s scary is most people here can’t read past the headlines and down votes those who read the article and comment on the article.
just-kath t1_j3gu12i wrote
All news is broken. I have at times seen the same story reported on different networks or different sites and the details are rarely the same. Who knows what actually happened? You are absolutely correct about people not reading past the headline, too.
And while I'm venting, I am over speculative "news" and panel shows. I look at an article and it says "If so and so says/ does/is elected ..." and there are people who will just take this as gospel. No one knows what will happen until it does.
Atrocious_1 t1_j3hbvz8 wrote
That's not even close to what the article states
>Democrats had 10,920 votes thrown out, about half for lacking secrecy envelopes. Republicans saw 3,503 ballots forfeited. Independents and third parties amounted to 1,731 votes that did not count in the fall election.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3hdtai wrote
What I said is EXACTLY what the articles states, because I read the entire article.
Almost 1.2 million mall in ballots were cast. This info is in the article.
1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots. (in the article)
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded. (in the artcile)
Republicans were 1.8 times more likely to have their mail-in ballot canceled vs. dems using the raw numbers of mail in votes.
Dems were 3 times more likely to have their mail-in ballot canceled vs. republicans using the raw numbers of discarded mail-in ballots.
My last two statements are clearly deceptive because we are not given context and are not given the raw numbers.
Atrocious_1 t1_j3igkz7 wrote
You doing your copy paste for the thousandth time doesn't make you any less wrong
mohanakas6 t1_j3gkcs2 wrote
NJ or not, bigots are bigots.
Repo_co t1_j3glti4 wrote
Oz wasn't all that much of a bigot, just a blowhard from another state who saw the open Senate position as a power grab opportunity. He wanted to become a Senator because Senators exist, not because he really wanted to get anything accomplished (aside from cutting wealthy people's taxes). Mastriano, on the other hand...
Bonegirl06 t1_j3gqntp wrote
Ah no. He's a bigot too. He used to have obvious anti-lgbtq episodes on his show.
mohanakas6 t1_j3gne53 wrote
artisanrox t1_j3tj1v4 wrote
>obvious bigots and idiots
But....that's their shtick, NJ or not 🤷♂️
Myron_Bolitar t1_j3gj8fb wrote
Yeah what they said
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gb3hf wrote
If you look at the numbers, in the article, 1%-1.8% of mail in ballots from both parties were impacted. In fact, you could alarmingly infer that republicans mail in ballots were thrown out at 1.8x that rate of democrats mail-in ballots.
[deleted] t1_j3gew2o wrote
“Democrats had 10,920 votes thrown out, about half for lacking secrecy envelopes. Republicans saw 3,503 ballots forfeited. Independents and third parties amounted to 1,731 votes that did not count in the fall election”
Do us a favor, don’t try math again.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gjpr4 wrote
I did. I read the entire article. It states, eventually, that there was around 1,000,000 mail in ballots for dems, 187,000 for rep.
16,000 were discarded. 10,000 were from democrats, 3,500 from republicans.
10,000 vs 1,000,000 is 1%
3,500 vs. 187,000 is 1.8%.
I did not include the independent numbers.
It is worse. 1.8x more republicans votes were thrown out proportionally.
======
The alarmist title states “a majority” of the thrown out ballots (16,000) were democrats - which is true - because more than half of the THROWN out ballots were dems.
However, this is sensationalism and does not represent a true understanding of what happened.
AmbiguousMessages t1_j3gn0mu wrote
If the election was based on the number of mail in ballots that would matter. But it wasn’t. In the overall count more democratic votes were negated.
hydroracer8B t1_j3gqa3w wrote
So it's absolutely idiotic to say that the title is sensationalist.
When you look at the numbers YOU just provided, the majority of discarded votes were from Democratic voters. The headline is true
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gqubc wrote
Right. But it is clearly misleading because it makes people think
A) a majority of democratic mail in ballot were not counted WHEN REALLY
B) 10,000 of 1,000,000 mail in democrat votes were not counted (1%)
If you disagree w/ the how misleading the title is, you only need to see the comments.
Another accurate title would be: “Republicans mail ballots thrown out at nearly twice the rate of Democrat mail in ballots”
Equally as alarmist, equally one-sided, equally true, equally mis/disinformation.
How about “98+% of all 1.2+ million mail Ballots recorded accurately”.
A much less sensational headline that builds trust in our near error free election system in PA.
hydroracer8B t1_j3gstr0 wrote
The headline literally says "majority of cancelled ballots were democratic"
Your point you listed above suggest that you didn't even finish reading the title. It's not misinformation because it's fucking true & accurate
Go apologize to your 3rd grade math teacher, and also your 2nd grade English teacher
tyrael459 t1_j3gl56b wrote
Very true, but unfortunately it’s just typical headline writing for either “side” of the issues these days.
There are great journalists out there, but never forget that any media company needs to make money somehow.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gmcqj wrote
Fair enough.
But what is truly scary is the down votes by people who are intentionally ignoring the facts that don't support their conspiracy theory.
AmbiguousMessages t1_j3gobnh wrote
They’re not. The percentage of negated mail-in votes is a meaningless number.
tyrael459 t1_j3gmx5g wrote
Agreed. That’s how we are these days, though. Most of us are in our respective bubbles, pretty much unwilling to listen to stuff that we don’t already agree with. Pretty depressing, really.
nikc4 t1_j3gvkm9 wrote
I'm glad you repeat yourself in every comment chain on this post so I can downvote you multiple times for the same dumb opinions.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gvrot wrote
What exactly is dumb about actually understanding math and how it used to push a false narrative and manipulate people, while increasing overall ignorance?
nikc4 t1_j3h1buv wrote
Understanding math isn't the issue. Understanding context is important too. This article comes after several years of republican attack on the mail-in ballot system, specifically because of its high proportion of democratic voters. This article is proof that the attack is working. The only thing your "alarming" percentages really prove is that Republicans are worse at writing their address on the envelope.
Unless you think people are sitting there going through each envelope trying to throw away the Republican votes.
You're focusing on the 0.8% difference. The people downvoting you are focused on the 7417 vote difference. It's a more important difference.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h416g wrote
Republicans do not “attack” anything. In PA they disagreed with emergency election measure put in place with the COVID shutdown which were maintained but not followed w/ legislative action once the COVID shutdown was ended.
The next argument was over mail in voting procedures and what rules (from the legislature) should and should not be followed and how that should be resolved in each voting district.
It can be argued, as many did, the arguments for following the rules supported the republicans.
Although, we can see in these results that 1% of dems didn’t follow ten rules and 1.8% of republicans didn’t follow the rules.
TransporterOffline OP t1_j3evit1 wrote
Posting this not because of the party mentioned, but instead to remind people that
- Every vote counts
- Make sure your vote counts
- Use the secrecy envelope
- Date your ballot envelope
- Check your ballot status and make sure your email address is correct and accessible
These 16,000+ ballots that went void due to avoidable procedural issues. Thankfully quite a few counties allowed mail-in voters the opportunity to fix their mistakes.
brashendeavors t1_j3ew01v wrote
Pretty sure they knew this.
Pretty sure that's why.
glitch83 t1_j3foq0c wrote
All I can think is I wonder if they canceled my vote… is there a way to check?
AFD_0 t1_j3fpch4 wrote
This URL is the only thing I know of that shows whether a mail-in/absentee ballot was recorded. Doesn't seem to be pulling up my info from the last election any more, though. Maybe you could try calling your local county elections office and see if that's something they can find out for you or not?
https://www.pavoterservices.pa.gov/pages/ballottracking.aspx
glitch83 t1_j3fx1hu wrote
This is great! 🙏 thank you!
I’m also having trouble accessing my record. If anyone gets this to work, could you just leave a message on this thread? Im curious if it’s down or…?
xAsroilu t1_j3g2053 wrote
I tried mine and it says my record isn't found/doesn't exist.
sweedishchef8286 t1_j3fz237 wrote
I tried both my mother and i. I know for a fact both were marked as accepted on election day .. but it's not working right now
shillyshally t1_j3fzldz wrote
Here in the burbs, we get an email saying our ballot was received.
Otter592 t1_j3gnt35 wrote
We also get emails in Allegheny county. One to say it was received and another to say it was counted.
shillyshally t1_j3gqlrm wrote
Yes. We got emails in Montco saying it was on the way and one saying it was received, a very well organized endeavor.
Tomofpittsburgh t1_j3hek9m wrote
Yeah this time I only got the “received,” but never got the “counted.”
cashonlyplz t1_j3gjgsj wrote
I dunno about you, but i had to vote absentee and actually got a letter saying my vote was successfully counted, from the election board
Wudaokau t1_j3f9j83 wrote
Anyone surprised? Republicans are criminals
stahleo t1_j3gfkoe wrote
These are mistakes made by Democrats. Own it.
cashonlyplz t1_j3glaqc wrote
Yeah, I'm confused. People seem to be misunderstanding the technical side of things versus being rightly critical of Republicans back-pedaling on procedures they themselves initiated at the start of the pandemic.
The votes were improper, and that's unfortunately on the voters, not the PA GOP.
What is on the PA GOP (and the RNC, fwiw) is making it harder for everyone's vote to be counted.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gn5f2 wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 times more likely to have their ballot canceled.
[deleted] t1_j3gprs5 wrote
[removed]
Thecrawsome t1_j3gtu33 wrote
Democrats don't do shit about it though. That's the most frustrating part.
Democrats need to organize and crash a party.
cashonlyplz t1_j3gl6r0 wrote
Huh?
feudalle t1_j3f50cc wrote
I think I'd like to know how many votes by mail by party. If 10 times more mail in votes were by democrats then logic would dictate more democratic ballots would be in error. Looking at the numbers my guess is by percentage third party ballots have the highest reject rate.
[deleted] t1_j3fhfi6 wrote
[deleted]
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gmzqr wrote
You are incorrect in stating that this information answers his question. Almost 1.2 million mall in ballots were cast. This info is in the article.
1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Republicans were 1.8 times more likely to have their mail-in ballot canceled vs. dems.
AmbiguousMessages t1_j3gppu9 wrote
If the election was based on the number of mail in ballots that would matter. But it wasn’t. In the overall count more democratic votes were negated.
5illy_billy t1_j3gxpy0 wrote
You are manipulating statistics to misrepresent the situation. 10,900 D vs. 3,500 R means three times as many dem votes were thrown out as republican. Framing it as a percentage of mail-in ballots cast is deliberately misleading.
Dems voted by mail way more than Republicans. Republican leaders know this and promoted conspiracy theories about mail-in voter fraud, discouraging conservatives from voting by mail. Then they threw out a bunch of mail ballots and whoops! who could have predicted that this would affect dems more?! That’s very convenient for republican leaders, huh.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h2xqj wrote
Thank you for proving my point. What a great conspiracy. 1% of democratic mail in ballots were discarded.
99% of 1,000,000 were counted correctly.
Percents matter. Proportions matter. Using percents or “3x” with out showing all the raw numbers is not good analysis.
Can you find 1 district, just 1, where the discarded ballots (republican or democrat) impacted the results for that district?
Can you find 1 district, just 1, where ALL mail-in ballots impacted the result for that district?
Most likely not, because they are a rounding error when compared to the in-person voting.
SecurelyObscure t1_j3h0b63 wrote
>Republicans were 1.8 times more likely to have their mail-in ballot canceled vs. dems.
We'd have to know the number of ballots that were cured, and therefore didn't count towards the number of cancelled votes, to see if party is a significant indicator. 4 of the six counties that outright refused to cure ballots lean heavily red.
Also need to normalize by demographics like age and educational attainment, which would impact the ability to follow the voting instructions.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h3909 wrote
Fair enough. That “1.8 times” is just an alarming way to manipulate the raw numbers, just like the articles headline.
Thecrawsome t1_j3gti27 wrote
In 2020, Democrats voted by mail 3 to 1, which is the reason why the GOP decided to do this
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gmuoq wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
AmbiguousMessages t1_j3gpqet wrote
If the election was based on the number of mail in ballots that would matter. But it wasn’t. In the overall count more democratic votes were negated.
MetaGoldenfist t1_j3iid9u wrote
It says 1,000,000 mail in ballots were for Shapiro and 187,000 mail in were for Mastriano. In terms of which party’s ballots were more likely to be discarded it says this: “Democrats had 10,920 votes thrown out, about half for lacking secrecy envelopes. Republicans saw 3,503 ballots forfeited. Independents and third parties amounted to 1,731 votes that did not count in the fall election.”
ScienceWasLove t1_j3ij7el wrote
Yes.
10,920 votes from 1,000,000 is 1%.
3,503 from 187,000 is 1.8%.
MetaGoldenfist t1_j3ijnq0 wrote
Who cares about the percentage. The article doesn’t mention percentage but you keep mentioning it. That doesn’t change the actual fact that more Democrats had their mail in ballots discarded. It also doesn’t change the fact that the envelope and date law that the state Supreme Court upheld is straight up voter suppression.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3ik0mz wrote
More democrats did because more people voted democratic. Not because they were targeted.
If as many republicans voted, the numbers would be reverse.
Percentage of a whole is important because it allows you to make comparisons.
Make things proportional.
MetaGoldenfist t1_j3ikfb8 wrote
Your missing the important piece which is that more people voted democratic by mail so of course statistically more dems would have their mail in ballots be wrong but ALSO the Supreme Court upholding the stupid law making casting mail in ballots more complicated bc of the date/signature/envelope law is blatant voter suppression bc they know dems are more likely to vote by mail. Either way it didn’t work.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3j0edy wrote
Do you think I am missing those points, I am one of the few people who read the article.
Lawmonger t1_j3f5nmx wrote
I think the majority of all mail-in ballots were from Democrats.
quietreasoning t1_j3fcs2h wrote
Making it an easy and obvious target for anti-democracy fascists.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gn4dh wrote
>This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
>
>Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 time more likely to have their ballot canceled.
Kabloosh75 t1_j3fdnpy wrote
Kind of easy to exploit too since mail in ballots struggle with the chain of custody.
We assume it's all fine the second you put it into your mailbox but it's really not.
That said the issue with mail in ballots isn't necessarily the risk due to the lack of chain of custody. It's more that you can more easily ballot harvest.
I can guarantee you republicans saw how much easier democrats had it having people go door to door encouraging folks to just fill out their mail in ballot and put it in their mail box. They will be able to get otherwise uninterested folks to quickly fill it out with little insight on the election to mail in their ballot.
Those who know a lot about the election are the actual minority here. Many people just don't have the time or interest to follow it all so you really only need to pitch some subject that sparks their interest and tell them to vote for their guy.
Dr_Worm88 t1_j3foifp wrote
I’m curious. Explain how easy it would me to bulk ballot harvest?
UnaffiliatedOpinion t1_j3fquo4 wrote
If you read the post more closely they are not really talking about "ballot harvesting", they are saying extremely explicitly that the problem with mail in voting is that by making it "too easy" to vote, then all the "dumb low information voters" will vote.
Dr_Worm88 t1_j3fqx83 wrote
K
Kabloosh75 t1_j3fpbwh wrote
Go door to door.
Tell people to vote. It's in the mail. Hell you can offer to help them fill it out.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
Mail in voting makes this super easy to achieve since people no longer need to take the time out of their day to go to the polls to vote. Way easier to just fill out a form and mail it.
I'm not opposed to the concept as long as it's done right and there's nothing illegal about going door to door and asking people to fill it out.
Just saying it's an easy way to get a bunch of people to vote that otherwise wouldn't have.
It's no different than driving up with a bus and picking up a bunch of people to go to the polls.
It's a form of legal ballot harvesting since you're just looking for folks that are most likely to vote for your preferred candidate so you target certain communities.
It's generally even easier for Democrats to do this since their strongholds are in cities. It's easier to hit up a dozen people in a shorter amount of time in an apartment complex than go door to door in a more rural neighborhood where people have an acre between each home.
Republicans are naturally disadvantaged since they have been traditionally represented by more sparsely populated regions.
the_hoagie t1_j3fq856 wrote
Just to be clear the definition of ballot harvesting is specifically the third party collection and submission of other people's ballots. Just assisting people with voting, even if it's door to door, is not ballot harvesting, nor is bussing people to the polls.
Kabloosh75 t1_j3fqqw6 wrote
It's ballot harvesting.
The law may not call it that, but when you manage to get a bunch of people to vote since they otherwise wouldn't have especially in large numbers you're harvesting something. Harvesting people to go to the ballot box. You're just not directly collecting the ballot and delivering it yourself.
[deleted] t1_j3g2dc0 wrote
[deleted]
ItsjustJim621 t1_j3gkdek wrote
They know what they’re talking about. They watched 2000 Mules and they’re an expert on ballot harvesting.
/s
the_hoagie t1_j3gmqjn wrote
That's just called voting. There's nothing nefarious about that unless you don't want people to vote. Ballot harvesting explicitly requires physically collecting and submitting other people's votes on their behalf.
cashonlyplz t1_j3gl0fn wrote
>It's ballot harvesting.
According to you. Ballot harvesting is when a third party is collecting a bulk of ballots, which I believe is illegal.
For example: A major municipality's own board of elections can do almost whatever re: drop-boxes, so long as it does not violate existing State laws/rules. That's not ballot harvesting. Going to a senior center and collecting everyone's ballots would and since senior centers often end up being a designated polling place, I'm not sure we have instances of this happening, at least not in PA, but I don't think it's necessarily nefarious if the people whose votes are getting delivered are all walker or wheelchair bound. Old folks like voting. it's not stopping nor circumventing the election process to aid them.
I think you're a little confused about the facts
Thecrawsome t1_j3gtmwj wrote
Turn off Fox Jesus Christ
People that who otherwise would not vote who gives a fuck, you just reminded them to vote.
That should be viewed as a Civic victory and nobody should look at that negatively.
[deleted] t1_j3gm4fs wrote
[removed]
Dr_Worm88 t1_j3fptg7 wrote
Interesting, trying to see the problem here since in your first post you painted it as a negative.
Kabloosh75 t1_j3fq1qj wrote
If you're a democrat. There is no problem.
If you're a republican. There's a problem and you're going to lose more elections if you don't adapt.
Dr_Worm88 t1_j3fq54r wrote
Sounds less of an issue with voting and more of an issue with their platform.
justasque t1_j3gy176 wrote
But wouldn’t those people have to have requested an absentee or no-reason-needed mail-in ballot in the first place? Thus showing some interest in the election, and a high likelihood of voting even without door to door help?
[deleted] t1_j3hd18y wrote
[deleted]
[deleted] t1_j3fiuqf wrote
[deleted]
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gn2xp wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 time more likely to have their ballot canceled.
[deleted] t1_j3gprec wrote
[removed]
Thecrawsome t1_j3gtfi9 wrote
First they want to find 11,000 votes,
Then they want to destroy 16,000 votes.
Republicans aren't interested in democracy. Democrats need to hold them accountable. 16,000 votes should mean 16,000 election tampering charges. They stole your votes.
stahleo t1_j3h94s9 wrote
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.
Thecrawsome t1_j3h9d5y wrote
Are you responding to the right comment?
stahleo t1_j3h9jox wrote
Yes. These mistakes were made by the voters. No one stole anyone's vote.
Thecrawsome t1_j3hb2v3 wrote
How delusional you are. I argue that you didn't read the article because you're unaware that voter curing is insidiously bad faith and it's stealing people's votes.
GOP made these rules after the 2020 election because they have a majority in the legislature, and they rely on dirty tricks to win. It was a literal fixing for them to steal people's votes.
Voter caging and voter curing is something that the GOP does to win elections. They can't win fairly.
How anti-democracy of you to defer to the hastily written rules as fair. Par of the course for the GOP.
stahleo t1_j3hhzq8 wrote
>How delusional you are. I argue that you didn't read the article because you're unaware that voter curing is insidiously bad faith and it's stealing people's votes.
No, this is false. Every state has some sort of ballot curing process and Pennsylvania is no different.
>GOP made these rules after the 2020 election because they have a majority in the legislature,
That is correct. That's how government works.
>and they rely on dirty tricks to win. It was a literal fixing for them to steal people's votes.
No, that is your unfounded opinion. Also, look up the definition of "literal."
>Voter caging and voter curing is something that the GOP does to win elections. They can't win fairly.
That allegation is as belligerent as saying that Democrats want open borders to secure future voters.
>How anti-democracy of you to defer to the hastily written rules as fair. Par of the course for the GOP.
I laugh at this point. These rules were put in place by the legislature, who were elected into office by the people. There is nothing anti-democratic about Pennsylvania's rules. If you don't like it, vote and demand change.
JoeNoble1973 t1_j3fuudu wrote
wow I’m just stunned
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gbpdz wrote
Such irresponsible headline and article
There is no ratios/percents in this article none.
If you compare the 1 million dem mail in votes to the 10k canceled dem ballots - you get 1%. Which is the same percent for the rep mail votes that were canceled. It’s proportionate.
The headline should be “1% of all mail in votes in PA canceled”.
[deleted] t1_j3gf3xe wrote
“Democrats had 10,920 votes thrown out, about half for lacking secrecy envelopes. Republicans saw 3,503 ballots forfeited. Independents and third parties amounted to 1,731 votes that did not count in the fall election”
Cons shouldn’t do math.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gk2ih wrote
I did. I read the entire article. It states, eventually, that there was around 1,000,000 mail in ballots for dems, 187,000 for rep.
16,000 were discarded. 10,000 were from democrats, 3,500 from republicans.
10,000 vs 1,000,000 is 1%
3,500 vs. 187,000 is 1.8%.
I did not include the independent numbers.
It is worse. 1.8x more republicans votes were thrown out proportionally.
======
The alarmist title states “a majority” of the thrown out ballots (16,000) were democrats - which is true - because more than half of the THROWN out ballots were dems.
However, this is sensationalism and does not represent a true understanding of what happened.
[deleted] t1_j3gptzv wrote
[removed]
cashonlyplz t1_j3gmb7a wrote
S'why they never manage to balance a budget lol
[deleted] t1_j3gpswb wrote
[removed]
Annahsbananas t1_j3gn13j wrote
Shit, the post office never even delivered my ballot (mine was done correctly). It mysteriously vanished in York Co
In the future I'm going to hand deliver my ballots.
TwitterTapeParade t1_j3gkxas wrote
Anyone who cares about voting and having their vote count should go to their polling station.
Zenith2017 t1_j3zh06x wrote
I'm with you purely because it's the least prone to an issue. I fully support mail in but I will go to the poll if at all possible, just in case.
TwitterTapeParade t1_j48s579 wrote
If you are out of state sure, but anyone who just votes mail-in because it's convenient is just lazy and probably is not paying attention to politics. They are most likely voting for their party blind. We need to end mail-in and make election day a federal paid holiday...no excuses.
Zenith2017 t1_j48vbib wrote
100% down for a federal holiday.
Archpa84 t1_j3go11j wrote
from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Sunday January 8 2023:
...."But the Democrats' much greater use of mail-in voting also meant they saw far more of their votes disqualified than did Republicans, independents and third party voters combined. Democrats had 10,920 votes thrown out, about half for lacking secrecy envelopes. Republicans saw 3,503 ballots forfeited. Independents and third parties amounted to 1,731 votes that did not count in the fall election."
Remarkable-Design-96 t1_j3ho4yi wrote
Vote in person if able.
[deleted] t1_j3fd09a wrote
[removed]
TheFerretman t1_j3ghwwm wrote
SHOCKING!!!!!
Not.
irondethimpreza t1_j3gl47s wrote
This is why I made sure I voted in person. I wasn't going to give the Republicans any more opportunity than necessary to invalidate my vote.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gnai1 wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 time more likely to have their ballot canceled.
irondethimpreza t1_j3gqzmt wrote
1% of 1 million = 10,000 invalidated Dem ballots
1.8% of 187,000 = about 3,500 invalidated Rep ballots
About 3x as many Democratic ballots were invalidated, but feel free to spin this however you want. Republicans are perfectly happy to do this as long as the numbers are in their favor. To therm, the invalidated Republican votes are just collateral damage, so long as they invalidate more Democratic votes.
Edit: cant math this morning
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gs0tr wrote
There is a reason percents exist.
It would be very prudent to use these percents, especially the 1% stat for democratic votes to prove how successful democratic messaging was on mail in ballots. Especially when compared to 1.8%.
That same 1% could be used to show that 99% of 1,000,000 mail in ballots were recorded successfully.
We could use the raw numbers as you did to suggest “no wonder, we all know democrats in the cities can’t read”.
We could use the 1.8% vs 1% to say “no wonder, we all know republicans in pennsyaltucky can’t read”.
=========
An honest, non biased read would be that 98+% of 1.2+ million mail ballots were recorded accurately.
[deleted] t1_j3gpv8l wrote
[removed]
HerbertWest t1_j3gs2l0 wrote
This is why I make sure to show up in person. Everyone who is able to and can absolutely ensure they will not miss voting should do so over vote by mail; not because vote by mail as a concept doesn't work, but because of Republican chicanery like this.
goplantagarden t1_j3h3edi wrote
Working as planned
yolorelli t1_j3hfsnb wrote
Was anyone actually expecting the opposite?
[deleted] t1_j3hqpm2 wrote
[deleted]
Monkeyhouse10 t1_j3i811t wrote
Finally the smoking gun of demonrats election frauds
/s
MetaGoldenfist t1_j3ieo8b wrote
This is why I made sure to vote in person during the mid terms. I didn’t want to take the chance.
Ajaws24142822 t1_j3irw8p wrote
When the votes get cancelled but Shapiro and Fetterman still win
drunkmonkey176 t1_j3m81r9 wrote
Preventing other people from voting is the only chance domestic terrorist trash has to "win" an election.
stahleo t1_j3qn4g3 wrote
No one was prevented from voting. Read the article.
assistant_redditor t1_j3g3iip wrote
No shit
xAsroilu t1_j3g1ttq wrote
How many of these were Dem, how many were Rep? We'll never know the true answer until 4-5, maybe 40+ years later after they are all dying or dead and gone. I always find it strange how this stuff comes out after elections and never before or during. Mail in ballots are privileged to be counted before voting even starts in person, they should have known what those ballots entailed a long time ago. But alas, something like this would have warranted an investigation and neither side wants that if it was in either favor.
ltahaney t1_j3g2qch wrote
It literally says so in the article.
Reddit must not be a lot of fun if you don't actually read anything ever.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gn8ou wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 time more likely to have their ballot canceled.
xAsroilu t1_j3g3kiy wrote
I don't trust anything anymore, even the media. So much flip flopping has been happening lately and how do we even know those numbers are true and accurate without a reasonable doubt? We don't, simple.
[deleted] t1_j3gf5pa wrote
Then you shouldn’t comment, since you know and trust nothing. You make no point.
xAsroilu t1_j3gy7v9 wrote
Or you could educate me instead of belittling me...? You are just a bunch of downvote happy trolls who'd rather start an argument than correct someone's misunderstanding on a topic I've noticed.
cashonlyplz t1_j3glyb3 wrote
Trust the Committee of 70, the non-partisan election integrity commission.
They've been doing their darndest since 1927 at keeping PA's election system in good standing.
PA only had 3 instances of voter fraud in 2022, and that's even according to the conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation
Also what flip-flopping has the media been doing? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it helps your argument if you'd cite, uhm, anything. Otherwise, you're just hyperbolic noise, which I think people of all political stripes can agree is a large part of our current problems re: echo chambers.
xAsroilu t1_j3gymog wrote
I've been following election results since the voting became available for mail in from MSN, CNN, fox and other local reporting and some of them were talking about mail in ballots being counted before election day which is why I kept seeing leads shift before election day even arrived. They'd always say Oz was in the lead then Fetterman, back and forth etc. Everyone was reporting something different constantly.
cashonlyplz t1_j3jul1a wrote
Just FYI:
Polling is not official counting. Everything you hear prior to election day, is from emotional data garnered primarily from people who still have landline telephones.
Media does not have access to actual vote counts until election day. Corporate media is bad. I really encourage people to support their local newspapers!!
[deleted] t1_j3gf7xh wrote
And our mail in ballots are NOT counted before Election Day. Everything you said, is uninformed
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gn7t0 wrote
This info is in the article. 1,000,000 dem and 187,0000 rep mail in ballots.
1% of dem and 1.8% of rep mail in ballots were discarded.
Turns out republicans that mail in their ballot were 1.8 time more likely to have their ballot canceled.
The headline is intentionally alarming and some sort of dis/misinformation.
[deleted] t1_j3gpux3 wrote
[removed]
xAsroilu t1_j3gzsji wrote
16,000+ peoples who's vote didnt count and that's not fair to the voters.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3h2zez wrote
Fair enough.
ScienceWasLove t1_j3gqf3p wrote
Mail in ballots is PA cannot be legally counted before Election Day.
Also, in the past, mail in ballots were often not counted in districts until much later if it was determined that the number of mail in ballots could would not have a statical impact on the election. If a district has 100,000 counted “regular” votes with a 95/5 dem/rep split and there were 1,000 main in ballots to count, there is no need to count them ASAP as if all 1,000 were for one candidate or the other, it would not matter vs 100,000 already counted votes.
cmb8129 t1_j3fm4d2 wrote
Yeh, ok 🙄
cashonlyplz t1_j3gljpk wrote
?
defusted t1_j3f83vh wrote
So many ballots not counted and Republicans still lost majority of the state. Maybe next time nominate actual people instead of obvious bigots and idiots from New Jersey.