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ell0bo t1_j372odj wrote

Reply to comment by RoyalEagle0408 in This state is extremely odd. I live in a place where there's two vastly different environments near me. by Willing_Category1331

The midwest basically starts in pittsburgh

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OhioJeeper t1_j37cq6s wrote

More like Cleveland (or Youngstown/Warren if you want to get really precise). Pittsburgh still has too much in common with Appalachia to be considered the midwest IMO. Most maps I've seen have it starting in Ohio, but even the south eastern part of that state is more Appalachia than midwest if you're looking at the area's history/economy/culture.

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d0s4gw t1_j37frzd wrote

What would you say are the fundamental cultural differences between the Midwest and Appalachia, specifically between Cleveland and Pittsburgh? I agree the geography is different but culturally they feel roughly identical.

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CherikeeRed t1_j37l1qz wrote

How egregiously your whiskey production was in opposition to the federal government maybe? Idk that's a toughie

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OhioJeeper t1_j387p4u wrote

It's harder to find good pepperoni rolls in the Midwest than it is Appalachia.

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ell0bo t1_j38r4m9 wrote

Ok, see... I can get behind this definition. lol

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OhioJeeper t1_j38y4vg wrote

I'm not even joking when I say that, this is one of those things that is Appalachian in the sense that people in WV will cling to like it's a key part of their identity, but you can still get them at pretty much any gas station in rural SE Ohio. Beyond that you're either needing to go to Sheetz or you're stuck eating some weird midwest food like spaghetti with shitty chili on it.

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Far-Communication778 t1_j3bg57p wrote

Ya mean that staple food of every University of Cincinnati student that looks like baby diarrhea? I don't know what the rave is or was.

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ell0bo t1_j37ut3d wrote

I'd consider Pittsburgh less Appalachia proper and maybe the foothills of it. So I'd consider it midwest, just will a few more hills.

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OhioJeeper t1_j387ka7 wrote

Not maybe, Pittsburgh is 100% for sure built in the Apalachian foothills. Look at a topo map of western PA (minus the far NW part where Erie is) compared to the Midwest and the terrain differences are fairly obvious.

Pittsburgh has steep hills that basically limit how and where things can be built, you don't really see that in other Midwestern cities.

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ell0bo t1_j38hb2y wrote

So you're talking physically and not culturally? Sure, topographically it's Appalachian, but culturally it's the beginning of the Midwest. Where does the Midwest begin to you?

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OhioJeeper t1_j38l1tm wrote

>So you're talking physically and not culturally?

I was talking both because the two aren't unrelated, but responding to your comment saying that it's not part of "Appalachia proper" based on topography alone.

>but culturally it's the beginning of the Midwest.

In what way? Have you ever been to a midwest city like Indianapolis, Columbus, or Chicago?

>Where does the Midwest begin to you?

Same place it begins for everyone else. "Midwest" is a census term, not something that changes based on our own perceptions and feelings of the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States#Culture

Appalachia is a cultural region that's literally defined by the topography, and Pittsburgh is a part of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia

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ell0bo t1_j38sj29 wrote

You really don't this Pittsburgh feels like a midwest city? Indianapolis, Omaha certainly feel like Pittsburgh, they're just a hell of a lot flatter. People are the same though.

Maybe it's the fact I few up in Appalachia and moved to Philly that I don't see Pittsburgh being Appalachian, but I've always felt it as being the start of midwest culture. That's where people start saying pop.

Now, if you asked me if the surrounding area feels like midwest, no. You drive 20 minutes and you're back in Appalachia, but the city itself feels more like a midwest town. When culturals begin to change, I expect there to be a patch work, so it doesn't phase me to say 'midwest culture' begins there. If you're talking census, it begins at the ohio border, 30 minutes away. I don't think it's a stretch to say that culture begins 30 minutes away from where the physical border is.

Columbus... that place always makes me feel like if you combined state college and Harrisburg. It's a weird outlier.

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OhioJeeper t1_j38v180 wrote

No, I grew up in the midwest. The only parts of PA that I'd consider part of the midwest are north of 80 and west of Meadville.

>People are the same though.

People tend to be the same across the entire US, the world even. Globalization kind of does that. My coworkers in Mexico shop at Costco more often than I do, so if we're going off of what "feels" like the midwest based off of just general US culture we should really be expanding our horizons.

>That's where people start saying pop.

It's not, and that's not uniquely midwest either:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/soda-vs-pop_n_2103764

>Now, if you asked me if the surrounding area feels like midwest, no. You drive 20 minutes and you're back in Appalachia, but the city itself feels more like a midwest town.

Okay now you're just being obtuse. Pittsburgh is the midwest, but places like Cranberry Township that are right outside of the city are back to being Appalachia? I wouldn't even say you're in the midwest if you drove straight across 70 into Ohio, those parts of the state aren't exactly the Midwest culturally, but the census lines aren't that precise.

>Columbus... that place always makes me feel like if you combined state college and Harrisburg. It's a weird outlier.

I mean it's the state capital plus home to one the of the largest universities in the country. The city is kind of split between downtown and where the university is, but I'd argue it's just what the midwest looks like. It's flat, laid out on a grid, culture is just kind of a basic "American" culture that's more tied to agriculture than the steel industry or mining.

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