Edit: I was incredibly wrong.

Either way, it's abuse of a corpse and a crime.

Edit: https://www.wtae.com/article/two-pitt-students-charged-with-abuse-of-a-corpse/42131168

Thanks to u/zorionek0 for getting more details by finding this article.

There’s degrees to that. These are students, and it happened in a classroom. Hard to believe it was that extreme, and if it was why did the cops wait a month to charge them?

>During a class about muscle groups, Gupta allegedly inappropriately touched and made inappropriate comments about a male cadaver.

>Jimenez allegedly inappropriately touched a female cadaver and made inappropriate comments.

I mean

>why did the cops wait a month to charge them?

Because investigations take time?

According to the article, they reported themselves to the police?

I missed the “read more” button on mobile so I thought it was just those first few paragraphs.

Edit: I went a googling and it was way worse

>When they call it “abuse of a corpse” it sounds way worse

...

>During a class about muscle groups, Gupta allegedly inappropriately touched and made inappropriate comments about a male cadaver.

>Jimenez allegedly inappropriately touched a female cadaver and made inappropriate comments.

Edit. See below, I was very very wrong.

Article says their classmates reported them

Abuse of a corpse is a criminal matter and being 19 isn’t a reason for it not to be a crime.

Do you understand that you are trying to “boys will be boys” these people out of abusing a dead body?

It's weird to me that you don't see molesting a body to be a crime, but you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

👍

Edit: I was very, very wrong.

Edit: I was super, duper, wrong

Did you read the article?

It was WAY worse than I thought. Jimenez should be in jail.

> According to the criminal complaints, witnesses told police that student Sonel Jimenez manually sexually assaulted a female cadaver while smirking and making comments.

I thought it was going to be more like this- off color comments. I don’t think what Gupta did was a crime if he was making mocking comments while doing the assignment

>Different witnesses told police that student Amay Gupta made mocking sexual comments about a male cadaver while having his hand inside the body's chest.

WTAE had more detail.

You were right, I was wrong.

Jesus Christ.

1. Good on you for doing more digging and being willing to admit you were wrong. More people, including me, need to be willing to do so.

2. That Jimenez is one sick bastard and threw away his entire future being gross.

Agree. I’d like to understand what actually happened. Having sex with, vs poking and making a joke are very different levels of severity to me.

I understand they may not be to everyone, but that’s my take

>According to the criminal complaints, witnesses told police that student Sonel Jimenez manually sexually assaulted a female cadaver while smirking and making comments

Yeah, that was my first though too but it is Significantly worse.

It sounds like the one kid was more like what I expected- making dumb jokes.

>Different witnesses told police that student Amay Gupta made mocking sexual comments about a male cadaver while having his hand inside the body's chest.

But the other kid is awful

> According to the criminal complaints, witnesses told police that student Sonel Jimenez manually sexually assaulted a female cadaver while smirking and making comments.

Yup that’s bad didn’t see that. Wild move in class?

Allegheny Rugby Club vibes.

When I was taking anatomy, they made it very clear to us that we need to be respectful of our cadavers. They were people who had lives and families. We even had the school chaplain pray over them to reinforce the seriousness of the situation. It was an honor to have an actual cadaver to dissect and not have to learn our anatomy in a book (before internet was in general use). I heard rumors of things that had happened in the past but our group was very careful. I hope this reinforces to others how serious this is.

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>They’re nineteen

Oh you're right. It's okay to sexually assault a cadaver if you're 19.

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The relevant statute for those who are interested.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.055.010.000..HTM

>According to the criminal complaints, witnesses told police that student Sonel Jimenez manually sexually assaulted a female cadaver while smirking and making comments.

Ok. You're fucked in the head if you think that's not "heinous necrophiliac rape of a corpse"

Edit: the necrophiliac defender blocked me.

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Didn’t expect this to be a second degree misdemeanor. Learned something new.

alas, poor Leopold

It took me a second to realize why you are being downvoted. You might want to add some context to the comment you made. As a comparative animal physiology student, fresh frogs fit the bill most of the time for us. Marine Bio doesn’t really have a need for human anatomy.

If you are on the way to learning how to take care of the human body in any kind of medical capacity, I totally understand the value of cadavers for learning about living beings. Cats and pigs can only take you so far.

No it doesn't. There are no facts here.

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Is this one of the suspect’s Reddit account?

I think they're just unhinged. Take a real quick look over their post history and it's pretty apparent

My son is 12 and they are doing dissection in science and they made it extremely clear that these things (whatever they were dissecting) were once living creatures and needed to be respected, and there would be zero tolerance for anything less. We had to sign and read over several forms about what it meant to respect a dissection specimen, and this is for things like a bovine eye and owl pellets

Ugh. My parent donated his body to a university. This article made me feel sick.

Probably for the best that you didn’t have the relevant statutes memorized lol

Correct.

Edit: read that wrong, why is that? This has peaked my interest sorry for asking if you don’t want to answer.

Just joking around. It would be suspicious if a person was like “I know the exact laws about what you can and can’t do to a corpse”

Oh yeah you’re right lol. I saw your reply notification when I was listening to a math (probability statistics to be exact) video. Mind was not all there when reading your reply lol.

I am donating mine and I don't give a shit. It's just dead flesh so people can do whatever the fuck they want.

An owl pellet, which is literally a turd, I think it's OK to have a little fun with.

I hope the chaplain understood the individuals spiritual preferences in regard to prayer. My dad was an atheist.

My son was all for the owl pellet. He got to keep all the bones he pulled out of it, they're in a little plastic specimen container with some cotton

Yeah. I’d feel that way if it were me. I feel protective of him in a way I don’t feel about myself.

Mouth turd actually.

I understand this is gross and wrong, but it strikes me that it’s better suited to opprobrium from peers or professors or expulsion from university or whatever than up to two years in the ACJ. Grabbing a cadaver’s dick for a laugh shouldn’t mean a year on bail and two years in reds.

Also the statute is vague as hell. What the hell are “ordinary family sensibilities” and how is a person supposed to conform his conduct to such a vague term?

And for what it’s worth, when I die, I literally do not give two shits what you do with my body.

>According to the criminal complaints, witnesses told police that student Sonel Jimenez manually sexually assaulted a female cadaver while smirking and making comments.

>What the hell are “ordinary family sensibilities”

Well, for one I'd say "Not fingering my loved ones corpse."

That’s all fine and well, but it blurs the line a bit when you’ve given them the right to literally dissect your loved one’s vagina.

Again, not defending this conduct morally, but I’m not sure what ordinary sensibilities are when you’ve given grandpa to the university for experiments and study.

And perhaps more importantly how broad is “treats a corpse in a way that would offend ordinary family sensibilities”?

Imagine yourself in say, Greene County, and imagine all the things that, say, a funeral director does and how they could offend “ordinary family sensibilities” of people there. Embalming offends some “ordinary” families. Putting makeup or other appearance enhancements could offend others. Acknowledging that the person was divorced, or gay, or atheist, or in drug recovery, or so on, could come under the sweep of this statute, and the punishment is up to 2 years in jail.

For my part, I would think that these students are immature as fuck, and they need to learn, not be put into the carceral system. If prosecution leads to that, great. But our jail is full of actual dangerous people, and it shouldn’t be full of stupid ass kids.

Dude, he was fingering the corpse and making lewd comments. It doesn't blur any lines.

If my wife goes in for an OB GYN appointment and the doctor starts trying to finger bang her, that's illegal. Just because he has permission to examine her vagina doesn't mean you're allowed to finger blast it.

I just bought a new pellet gun. haha

I've read a lot of dumb things from a lot of stupid people on Reddit.

This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read from one of the dumbest mother fuckers on this platform.

In middle school science class we dissected frogs. Someone cut into ours and formaldehyde shot into another students face and I laughed. The teacher made me sit in the hall.

Of course it blurs the line. The families here gave license for the use of these bodies that literally includes the actual acts here. That fact is not different because the acts were accompanied by lewd comments. Maybe that’s legally significant or maybe it’s not, but it’s a hell of a thing to take 2 years of someone’s life for.
Maybe I just care less about what happens to my body when I die, but this just seems like grossly disproportionate.

And again, imagine a law that says it’s an M2 to “treat people in a way that would offend ordinary sensibilities.” That kind of vagueness is just an open door for arbitrary and discriminatory law enforcement. “Don’t be awful” is a good enough personal code I guess, but it’s hardly a legal one built for our already trash legal system.

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Not sure why you feel a need to veer into personal attacks here man. Have a good night.

I like that you're getting downvoted.

The "freedom of religion" crowd doesn't like when that applies to anyone but them. 🙄

>And for what it’s worth, when I die, I literally do not give two shits what you do with my body.

This is fine, but this is you stating consent to do so. These people donated their bodies to science and consented to being used for educational purposes, not lewd or disrespectful ones.

For me, the important context here is that these students are training to be medical professionals. Respect of bodily consent is key to that field. Respect of people's sensibilities toward death and the handling of bodies post-mortem is also going to be key to their job because they'll likely see a decent amount of it in their profession. If they can't be trusted to treat the body of a dead person with respect, it's fair for the college to question what kind of grace they'd extend a living one.

I don’t think we have any facts on whether or to what degree the deceased would have cared, but I agree with your points otherwise.

I just think this transgression is one that should be dealt with via learning the points you’ve raised, or via personal and university sanctions, not criminal ones. Maybe the criminal process will be the cudgel to make that learning happen. But if these folks do 2 years at the ACJ, that’s a gross overreaction.

Before we even were able to pay our dues for cadaver lab, we had to sign a contract of personal professional conduct. It was in regard to how we treated our individual cadavers. No inappropriate behavior, sexual conduct, photography, etc. Basically it was written as though the cadaver was not able to consent to these acts, therefore doing so would be a breach of contract & we would lose our cadaver and would not receive a refund.

I personally am considering donating my body to science, speaking from someone in the field, learning hands-on is much easier than reading a textbook (in my experience). Upon donation, what happens with my body is no longer a concern of mine. I can see why others would not feel the same way that I do & that's fine as well.

How the fuck does the professional work a funeral director does by request of the family having the funeral even remotely compare to the perversion that is sexual abuse of a corpse. Apples and potatoes. And yes it should be criminally just as it would for anyone NOT in a university that abuses a corpse.

Actually, I am an atheist as well. It was meant as an act of respect for the people that donated their bodies so we could learn how to take care of the living and we all felt it was a wonderful gesture.

My father is dead. It would have been disrespectful for the chaplain to say a prayer over him. My mother went against his wishes when he was on his death bed and had a priest come in to give him his last rites. I would have stopped them if I had been there.

Yes, it looks like you're getting your fair share, too.. Freedom of also means freedom from. I'm agnostic, myself. My dad and I had several discussions about belief systems throughout his life. His ideas didn't change on his death bed.

I highly doubt they’ll go to jail, in all honesty. It’s probably more that the potential hangs there as a threat to emphasize the seriousness of the crime in the most extreme situations. They’ll likely get probation and a fine. Now, for what the school will do is another situation. These two may very well be on their way to academic censure, if not suspension.

Have some fuckin’ respect for the dead

Sure. I do. But have some respect for what taking two years of someone’s life is.

I mean, I’d prefer a disposition that’s has a little more learning. Impose some ARD that has x-100 hours of community service in connection with funereal directors or palliative care for the elderly or something. Use the opportunity to rehabilitate. These aren’t hardened criminals who are dangerous to the community. They’re kids who need to be taught a lesson.

There’s nothing in the statute that doesn’t apply to funereal requests, and there’s nothing in the statute that says if the (or some members of the) family request something, it’s not still a basis for liability.

Contrariwise, there is language in the comment to the statute that indicates that it’s reference to authorization by other law means to exempt those engaged in academic settings.

If they can’t respect the dead? Fuck that noise!

You’re entitled to your own opinion, but in mine, prison is meant for people who represent a threat to the community so that they have to be isolated. These are kids just out of high school who need to grow the fuck up, not threats to the community.

Cool.

So when you croak, we’ll let someone violate your dead body in ways you would not have approved of when you were alive. No big deal, right?

If you find it no big deal… seek professional help. Badly.

I literally do not care what happens to my body when I die. And I certainly don’t want my dignity to be used as a basis to put kids in prison years later.

I’m not suggesting it’s not wrong or morally reprehensible. But it’s not what prison is for.

Seek help. Badly

And isn't it funny that we're in a thread where everyone's talking about the sanctity of one's bodily autonomy post mortem yet expressing concern for the disregard of peoples' religious freedoms/choices gets downvoted? :)

Just because I don't believe that I'll experience these actions once I die doesn't mean I want my body defiled with rituals I don't believe in/approve of for myself.

Stay classy Pennsylvania.

This is silly. Not everyone is religious so people have different views about what happens to you after you die. To me a corpse is just dead organic matter with no significance whatsoever, so I don't care what happens to my body. You disagree, which is fine - your preferences should be respected. But there's no reason to impose them on everyone else.

I agree that this law is very vague. "Ordinary family sensibilities" is practically meaningless.

Thank you for saying this. It broke my heart that my mother proceeded with last rites on my dad's death bed. He was a staunch atheist throughout his life. It's difficult for the spiritual to comprehend the utter rejection of an atheist for spiritual rituals.

And certainly different today than it was when the law was enacted. And different within families.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Luckily, the one form of faith I have is in our progress as a race. I do believe that some day others won't have to put up with this level of disrespect and subsequent dejection.

I'm obviously not spiritual or religious in any way, but I do believe that people can find their place in the universe and for those of us who experience these forms of disregard, our place can be to educate others on the importance of respecting others even when they aren't around to experience the outcome.

Stay well :)

Yes, that's the issue, isn't it? The choice to adhere to spiritualism, or the rejection of it. Accepting all beliefs, without judgement, is the foundation. Thank you again for your kindness and understanding.

I wish you the very best in your journey.