Politicians fudged the truth (tried to blame increase in murders on Prosecutors’ tactics).

Larry Krasner was elected Philadelphia DA in 2017. Since that time, murder and violent crime have skyrocketed. This is not a political talking point, it is a fact. Under Krasner, murders in the city have more than doubled from 277 in 2016 to 562 murders in 2021.

The good people of Philadelphia deserve better.

What’s the prevalent method used to commit murder in Philadelphia?

Most murders are committed with handguns. Side note, virtually zero murders in Philadelphia are committed with the AR-15 rifle. So you think it's a gun problem? Have any of the gun laws changed in Philadelphia in the last 20+ years, including during Krasner's term? Has the murder rate more than doubled since krasner was elected?

I'm a reasonable person, and I understand reasonable people can disagree, but I'd love to have a reasonable discussion about this issue.

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Perhaps you misinterpreted my reply. Gun laws have absolutely nothing to do with the more than doubling of the murder rate since krasner took office. He does not enforce the gun laws that are already on the books.

When you don't enforce the law and allow criminals to remain on the streets, crime escalates. This outcome was as predictable as anything

I don't like Krasner. I don't know why y'all voted him in for a second term. Point to whichever academic studies you want, but his actions (downgrading charges, gutting the DA's office, souring the office's relationship with police, gaslighting Philadelphians about our crime problem) have absolutely contributed to the city's rising crime. However, this impeachment trial is a total farce, and it's not the way to operate in a democracy.

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Yes, we are in agreement. He's not enforcing many of the laws on the books, including gun laws. it is absolutely pointless to advocate for additional gun laws when the laws already on the books aren't being enforced.

Krasner is in charge of enforcing the law, he is completely incompetent and failing the people of Philadelphia

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Similar increases have occurred in essentially every city. Cities with progressive DAs, cities with tough on crime DAs. Correlation is not causation.

Moreover the people of Philadelphia reelected Krasner in 2021.

Shouldn't the good people of Philadelphia have a say in their DA?

Maybe one of those people will step in and explain why violent crime and murder have skyrocketed under krasner? Gun laws have not changed, gun laws have nothing to do with the exponential increase in violent crime during krasner's tenure.

So what is causing the dramatic increase in murder and violent crime?

Economic and social disruption due to the pandemic is the most likely culprit given it's likely the only circumstance to hit everywhere.

Violent crime has risen essentially across the board in the US. It's impacted cities, suburban, and rural communities. Red states and blue states. Red run cities and blue run cities.

It's not a localized event so trying to lay it on a localized cause is not a logical conclusion to draw.

No, I don’t think it’s a gun problem. Funny how you jumped to that conclusion.

Gun laws that haven’t changed in 20+ years could be an issue. Guns have changed, gun ownership has changed, why are we dealing with old laws?

What else has increased exponentially since around when krasner took office? Why if it isn’t gun sales. Want some rational reasoning … more guns = more gun deaths 😱

So the failure to aggressively prosecute violent criminals isn't a factor, even though we know recidivism is extremely high among violent criminals. That's interesting. It's also interesting that krasner blames guns is a problem, yet gun laws have not changed in the city in more than 20 years. They were the same in 2016 as they are in 2022, yet murders in Philadelphia have more than doubled in that time.

I do agree that the government imposed mandatory shutdowns had many negative effects that will linger for years.

No “reasonable person” or normal gun owner spends all their time jerking off to firearms, fam. You bringing up assault rifles makes you seem a tad… obsessed.

It’s very weird and definitely not “reasonable.”

Lol, I asked you if you think guns are the problem, I didn't jump to any conclusions. Diirectly above you say you don't think it's a gun problem in your first sentence. In your last sentence, you say more guns equal more gun deaths. I think you're confused on your own position

I'll help you, the exponential increase in violent crime and murders in Philadelphia is not due to lack of gun laws. It is due to the fact that the prosecutor isn't aggressively prosecuting violent criminals

By the way, in 2016 90% of Philadelphia's murders were committed with guns. In 2021, that number fell to 85% of murders were committed with guns. Again, this is not a gun problem, this is a violent criminal problem. Violent criminals need to be locked up and removed from society

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I brought up the AR-15 because many lefties including Krasner seem to believe that banning these will help solve the murder problem in places like Philadelphia. This couldn't be further from the truth. According to the FBI, more people are killed every year with "hands, fists, and feet" than are killed with all rifles combined, including the AR.

Interjecting facts into a discussion is often helpful for those seeking to have a reasonable dialogue. It seems to trigger those who are not...

I’m confused on what I think (that’s pretty trippy in itself) OR you don’t know how to read.

I didn’t say there was a lack of gun laws, I asked why the gun culture is different from 20 years ago yet the laws are basically the same.

The rest of your post is opinion, not fact

No, you brought it up because you’ve got a creepy obsession and wanna get in some talking points that only make sense to people who are to afraid to go anywhere without a weapon, but tell yourself whatever you need to in order to cope.

You’re a gun fetishist arguing policy in a jurisdiction you most likely don’t live in.

GOP relying on a liberal rag like the Inquirer?

Lol, my whole family is from South Philly. It's funny but sad at the same time when people like you get triggered by facts and logic.

I brought it up because the district attorney in question specifically said guns are the problem, and that is a class of guns he is specifically seeking to outlaw. The facts I've presented have been very relevant to the topic at hand.

If I'm such a low level creep, why don't you just destroy my position with facts and logic? Seriously, exercise your brain

Nobody here mentioned it except for you.

You’re basically having a conversation with yourself about how triggered others are that you compare guns to fists. If this seems like a good argument to you, it’s only because you’ve got a weird obsession and can’t tell the difference between a foot and an assault rifle.

[If Krasner broke into your house tomorrow and took every one of your repeating firearms it certainly wouldn’t hurt the crime situation, ‘cause you simps keep losing handguns and complaining about gun control and illegal guns in the same breath.]

If it were a prevailing factor you'd expect to see differences in violent crime increases in areas with progressive DAs adopting similar policies vs areas with tough on crime DAs, but that's not being born out.

Gun laws may have not changed, but gun purchases have absolutely increased in recent years. Which is why police nationwide are seeing sharp decreases in time to crime rates, which track the length of time from purchase to use in a criminal act.

If Philly deserves better the Krasner then opposition to him should be able to pick better candidates then a "Democrat" shilling for the one of the few organizations in Philly people like even less then the DA, the GOP, and a wacko ranting about bathtubs and wanting macho prosecutors.

A legitimate impeachment effort wouldn't have to prop itself up with less then credible studies as indicated by the article. That speaks to this being about politics.

Hahaha, I tried bro. Keep your head stuck in that echo chamber, sorry it interrupt

The root cause of the skyrocketing violent crime epidemic in Philadelphia is clearly visible to anyone who is reasonable and objective.

If you don't prosecute violent criminals, violent criminals will be on the streets and commit violent crime. It really is that simple.

Give me an example of a major city with a tough on crime DA that has seen the murder rate double in the past 5 years. Please educate me.

https://news.yahoo.com/republican-controlled-states-have-higher-murder-rates-than-democratic-ones-study-212137750.html

Here you go.

Now talk about the PPD. That's The Philadelphia Police Department, for those commenting on shit they don't understand from the middle of nowhere.

The guy above me asserted that cities with tough on crime DA's have seen similar increases in violent crime compared to those with Progressive DA's who do not aggressively prosecute violent criminals. The link you posted citing one study from a left-leaning think tank offers no example of that happening.

>I don't like Krasner. I don't know why y'all voted him in for a second term.

Well, his only opposition in the primary was endorsed by the police union, and then in the general it was a guy with a section on his website called "the girl in my bathtub" regarding a dead woman found in his bathtub.

But primarily he won a second term because, while nobody likes him, most of the city sees firsthand that our police department is delinquent and we don't buy their side of the story regarding the spike in crime.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myths-and-realities-understanding-recent-trends-violent-crime

The article contains links to other articles/studies if you want to dig down to where they are getting their info.

It's really telling that you want to try and oversimplify complex issues but are dismissive of Krasner doing similar.

After all, in his view, the root cause is clearly visible to anyone that is reasonable and objective. Gun violence is driving these increases in violent crimes. Gun proliferation has increased sharply. The more guns you have the more gun related crime is going to result. It really is that simple.

The grandstanding can cut both ways.

Almost like we had a massive event that affected everyone in the country….hmm what could that be?

What about police not pursuing or arresting violent criminals? Philly cops aren’t doing much to help curb the violence. We can’t complain about Krasner not prosecuting if police aren’t arresting people who should be in jail. And another thing, drugs are rampant Philly. I’d say it’s more likely a symptom of the pandemic and the drug crisis.

And you asserted to wanting a legitimate conversation on the topic, but all your doing is insisting that you have it all figured out. Two ears .. one pie hole

Is it possible for you to cite an actual scientific study or reputable data that doesn't come from a left-leaning source? The Brennan Center...

The irony is rich here. You said "correlation does not equal causation", and then cite a left-leaning study that shows crime rates also went up in certain states that voted for Donald Trump in the last presidential election.

I am literally talking about district attorney Philadelphia Larry Krasner who is charged with administering criminal justice in the city. Not Joe biden, not Donald trump, I'm talking about the actual guy who is charged with prosecuting criminals. Larry krasner is failing miserably at his job.

The city of Chicago has entered the chat

As if Vega, one of the most notoriously crooked people in Philadelphia in the last 20 years was supposed to be better?

Yes, you tried to compare feet and hands to guns and thought it was very clever. It’s a good thing you’ve got guns to help your support your sense of self worth because it’s clear debate ain’t your forte.

I used to be a police officer, and I sympathize with the Philadelphia Police Department rank and file officers. From many officers perspectives, it has been demonstrated repeatedly over the last several years that violent criminals arrested will be released and back on the street in a revolving door justice system.

As an officer, witnessing criminals released and back on the streets can be very demoralizing. It's human nature to begin to take less risks as an officer to bring violent criminals to justice, especially when leadership in the city chooses not to prosecute, and releases them

I don't have it all figured out, but I certainly have some of it figured out. I don't live in an echo chamber, that's why I'm here.

>The root cause of the skyrocketing violent crime epidemic in Philadelphia is clearly visible to anyone who is reasonable and objective.

That's right, unfortunately you are neither of those things

Ah yes, the great pandemic of 2017.

The BS on the left has gotten worse lately because moderately intelligent democrats have been shutting their mouths, only leaving the total idiots still pushing the nonsense.

Lol, I didn't think I was clever at all, I'm just informed. Literally more people die in fist fights every year than die from AR-15s. However, you would never know that if you never leave an echo chamber of confirmation bias. I was trying to help you grow bro!

Tell me why it is burrito. Why is violent crime skyrocketing in Philadelphia?

I maintain the primary reason is because Larry Krasner is a progressive district attorney who is very soft on crime and doesn't aggressively prosecute violent criminals.

Lol nobody cares what you "maintain"

>we don't buy their side of the story

Neither side has been remarkably candid. Don't conflate my distaste with Krasner with any sort of love for the PPD.

So, we’re in agreement that your comparison is stupid?

Lol, I knew better than to attempt to have a reasonable and logical exchange with a burrito.

I'm just spitting facts bro, I'm not going to continue this exchange with you unless you bring some logical or reasonable information to the table.

You didn't even try, all you've done here is spout ideological garbage

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I'll try one more time burrito, why is violent crime skyrocketing in philadelphia? Why does it correlate with the term of the current district attorney who is very well known to be very soft on violent crime? Honest question, is it just a coincidence? Is there any chance that not locking up violent criminals and allowing them back on the street has contributed in any way to the dramatic increase in violent crime?

The Brennan Center's sources in this case come from organizations and government data such as the CDC and FBI.

To be frank, its not Krasner who has his own issues. Because if its Krasner, I could also cite the city controller report on the PPD and instead point the blame at the police who seemingly quit doing their job since the BLM protests.

Plus, you've provided no data, just emotional lines.

So you have a bias in this conversation because you'd rather be sympathetic to a government organization that was just recently lampooned for bilking tax payer dollars, abusing rules, wasting manpower on civilian positions with police officers and having a union that generally stands in the way of actively fixing the many corrupt issues that permeate the entire PPD.

No wonder you want to blame Krasner, it makes the PPD look better despite them playing a big part in it.

Lol, I've provided plenty of data and very little emotional arguments. Calling the sky blue isn't an emotional argument, it's simply a statement of fact.

If you don't aggressively prosecute violent criminals, and you release these violent criminals back onto the streets, violent crime will rise sharply. This isn't an emotional argument, this is a statement of fact. It's concerning this isn't obvious to everyone. I've shared the data several times, murders have more than doubled in the city of Philadelphia since krasner became DA.

The leftwing Brennan Center cherry picks data from government sources to support their position. They openly advocate for Progressive policy implementation, they don't hide it.

I will acknowledge that the Defund The Police movement impacted morale among rank and file police officers. I'm not defending that, but it's human nature

My experience with the Philadelphia Police Department has not been positive. I was speaking personally from my experience as a police officer in a different state.

New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis, Atlanta, Portland, Seattle, New Orleans, Boston all have similar District Attorneys and all have similar murder numbers.

Chester, PA and Camden, NJ murder numbers are down. They also have reasonable DAs.

Yeah, I'm guessing you don't really pay attention to markets and economics, or if you do and you're purposefully forgetting the reality of 2017.

In 2017, the Fed starts raising rates (thanks Obama for 7 years of a growing economy). In 2018 Trump started to raise tariffs. By 2019 we were heading for a recession, recall us bailing out the farmers. They weren't the only ones hurt. Trump then had his famous dinner with the head of the Fed, which had them cut rates back to 0.

Our economy hasn't been great since 2018, it was on life support heading into 2020, and a lot of cash got tossed at it to save it. Low interest rates, lots of cash, and trumps tax cuts... shockingly we ended up with inflation.

So yeah, when crime starts to rise, check the low level economic numbers, you might learn something.

Lol I have zero interest in your dumb bullshit, just here to say that's all it is

Says the chump who won't answer a simple direct question asked repeatedly about the topic at hand.

Why has violent crime skyrocketed in Philadelphia, particularly since 2017?

OK - how many school kids got murdered by hands and feet today?

Every one is tragic. There are evil people in this world who do terrible to innocent people. Those evil people should be locked up behind bars

No, don’t dissemble. We’re using your “logic” so please, if hands and feet kill more people than guns, when was the last massacre caused by a martial artist?

You're quoting Johnny 5 from Short Circuit? Interesting.

Every year, what I said is true: all rifles combined, not just the AR platform, account for a relatively small amount of total murders. Exponentially more people are murdered by stabbing, and more are murdered by hands, fists, and feet. Look at the FBI crime statistics in the link and educate yourself: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Just look at Philly crime stats. That’s the only study you need.

I dunno what you think this proves, other than that you dipshits shouldn’t have access to handguns either.

Its an incredibly emotional argument because you're not actively providing evidence that this is happening beyond a few moments.

You've made a bunch of claims, nothing to pack them up and then act high and mighty when we point that out. We provide sources, its not good enough, but the fact of the matter is that one side brought evidence. You've brought 'common sense'.

And you can keep throwing around Philly Numbers about our murder rate, and we've responded back pointing out its a nationwide epidemic of violence in cities with both progressive and conservative DAs. In fact, New York City's DA has simiiliar views to Krasner, they have a fucking 3rd of our crime rate. And both the previous and current DA are progressive in their policies.

So if we're gonna throw around excuses, what about the sorry excuse for the Philadelphia Police Department with a notorious history including the MOVE Bombing, Joey fucking Bologna who got a standing ovation after crushing a teenage girl's head in during the BLM protest, and the FOP who've all but admitted that they want to arrest more black people.

Or how about the number of police in civilian positions wasting our time not patrolling the streets? Why aren't they held to same crushing accountability that Krasner is?

What did he do that made murder crimes raise in this time period ?

It’s almost like some major global situation caused a lot of disruption sometime between 2017 and 2022. I wonder what it could possibly be.

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Prosecutions against dangerous criminals are much fewer than his predecessor, and sentences for dangerous criminals are far more lenient.

Larry krasner is doing exactly what he campaigned on, and the results are predictable

What happened between 2017 and 2020?

The Trump administration?

Trump Derangement Syndrome is a lot worse than I thought

Do you not believe the Trump administration happened between 2017 and 2020? Damn, what planet are you on?

Lol, no. So you think Trump was responsible for the spike in violent crime in Philadelphia between 2017 and 2022, but not Larry Krasner.

I have an open mind, even though obviously we are on opposite ends up the political spectrum. Enlighten me, how did Trump increase the murder rate in Philadelphia, while simultaneously the progressive district attorney in Philly who doesn't prosecute the majority of serious crimes bears no responsibility?

You asked “What happened between 2017 and 2020?” I suggested something notable that happened during that timeframe. I’m not sure why you’re confused here. I mean, it would be pretty weird to talk about Krasner in 2017 since he wasn’t in office then.

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The economy was excellent until the COVID lockdowns.

No sane person believes otherwise.

Ok bro, I meant something relevant to the discussion at hand. My bad for not being extremely specific in every single reply. The murder rate in Philadelphia more than doubled between 2017 and 2022, that is the discussion here.

Yeah, bro. I get it, bro. Krasner wasn’t in office in 2017, bro. So if you’re talking about 2017-2020, you’re going to have to clarify what you mean, bro.

Lol, ignoring reality makes you sane?

Yeah, they definitely had to cut rates to 0 for an excellent economy, which meant when covid hit we could only spend our way out. I'd hate to have seen the situation if the economy wasn't excellent.

I appreciate the laugh, thank you.

Krasner was elected Philadelphia DA in November 2017

No shit, bro. He took office in 2018, bro.

Thank you semantic police

Yeah, that’s me: logic police.

When you sober up, feel free to post more. Go ahead and scroll up, throughout this exchange, I said Larry krasner was elected in 2017, and that the murder rate has doubled since he was elected. You have yet to make one logical point to refute a single thing I've said.

Well, your first problem is that it actually hasn’t doubled since he was elected. I do find your constant goal shifting and attempted ad hominems pretty humorous though. So thank you very much for the laughs.

Stats are one thing. The misstep is asserting some correlation. Murders are up nationwide, and still not as bad overall, as the 90's. There have been obviously failings in the DAO's policies, but nothing worthy of impeachment. This has been a political farce since day one.

Krasnodar is an ideologue. An angry hard left soft on crime liar. He needs to be show. The door asafp!

Maybe is Larry Would actually w fire the dozens of gun laws already on the books and jail those who possess illegal firearms it would help reduce murder and other crime. Wtf are new gun laws needed for when he won’t enforce the old ones?

Do you have any sources with numbers? What classification system and operational definition are you using for ‘dangerous criminal’ ?

Kinda need the PPD to do their job in order to prosecute. They have to solve cases.

"The increase in gun violence coincided with other concerning gun-related trends. As gun violence surged over the last six years, clearance rates — the share of cases solved by the Philadelphia Police Department (PPD) — for homicides and non-fatal shootings declined. In 2020, just 37% of fatal shootings were cleared by the PPD. At the same time, the number of individuals arrested for illegal gun possession increased by more than 100% between 2015 and 2020."

From: https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/data-release-gun-violence-trends/

Lots of admin bloat:

"Of PPD’s approximately 6,000 total officers, only 2,500 are assigned to patrol. In addition to officers assigned to specialized units, many officers (not officers on limited duty) are assigned to positions that conduct administrative work, such as delivering mail. The review found that PPD did not have formalized job descriptions for all positions, making it difficult to assess whether positions could be done by a civilian instead of an officer, a process called civilianization."

From: https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/ppd-review/#/executive-summary

Fun anecdote:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1585709871781089280.html

The guy is a fucking idiot, and brainwashed to boot. Perhaps that’s redundant.

No party should be trying to impeach a District Attorney from the other party simply for being ideologically different.

Krasner is not even credibly accused of breaking any laws in this impeachment circus.

They just dislike his politics and are desperate for the talking points that will come out of this. And if they succeed? It would be wildly unexpected, but gravy to them.

This is all out of the book of Trump: Push the system to the brink, see if it breaks in your favor. Bully everyone you disagree with. Make basically existing outside of your group of supporters a toxic and tiring exercise. Wear the other guys down. Make the unreasonable seem reasonable and make the reasonable seem criminal. Up is down, right is wrong, etc etc till the cows come home. It never ends with these people. Shame would only slow them down. So they got rid of shame, and what do you know, everything is easier for them now.

Vote these baseless-impeachment-bringing bastards out. This whole ridiculous exercise is making a mockery of PA law and the state constitution.

I actually want you to answer his question. Do you think the people should have a say or do you think the politicians know what’s best for us?

Your question is ironic. You're putting your faith in Krasner who is a politician. Billionaire George Soros is spending as much money as he needs to ensure soft on crime prosecutors like Larry Krasner remain in office. Krasner and Soros insist that not prosecuting nearly as many criminals won't cause a spike in crime, they are obviously wrong and/or lying. But they don't live in the neighborhoods where these crimes are occurring, they can afford armed security, it's absolutely disgusting in my opinion.

To answer your question, the people who voted for krasner deserve who they elect. It's up to the voters to decide.

I've asked some questions that haven't been answered. What is causing the dramatic increase in crime in Philadelphia over the last several years?