Submitted by psychothumbs t3_yd517w in Pennsylvania
ScottEATF t1_itqel7p wrote
Reply to comment by Matt-33-205 in Larry Krasner Impeachment Committee Relies on Widely Panned Journal Study by psychothumbs
Similar increases have occurred in essentially every city. Cities with progressive DAs, cities with tough on crime DAs. Correlation is not causation.
Moreover the people of Philadelphia reelected Krasner in 2021.
Shouldn't the good people of Philadelphia have a say in their DA?
Matt-33-205 t1_itqev44 wrote
So what is causing the dramatic increase in murder and violent crime?
ScottEATF t1_itqgnmm wrote
Economic and social disruption due to the pandemic is the most likely culprit given it's likely the only circumstance to hit everywhere.
Violent crime has risen essentially across the board in the US. It's impacted cities, suburban, and rural communities. Red states and blue states. Red run cities and blue run cities.
It's not a localized event so trying to lay it on a localized cause is not a logical conclusion to draw.
ThunderySleep t1_itraepg wrote
Ah yes, the great pandemic of 2017.
The BS on the left has gotten worse lately because moderately intelligent democrats have been shutting their mouths, only leaving the total idiots still pushing the nonsense.
ell0bo t1_itrwb8r wrote
Yeah, I'm guessing you don't really pay attention to markets and economics, or if you do and you're purposefully forgetting the reality of 2017.
In 2017, the Fed starts raising rates (thanks Obama for 7 years of a growing economy). In 2018 Trump started to raise tariffs. By 2019 we were heading for a recession, recall us bailing out the farmers. They weren't the only ones hurt. Trump then had his famous dinner with the head of the Fed, which had them cut rates back to 0.
Our economy hasn't been great since 2018, it was on life support heading into 2020, and a lot of cash got tossed at it to save it. Low interest rates, lots of cash, and trumps tax cuts... shockingly we ended up with inflation.
So yeah, when crime starts to rise, check the low level economic numbers, you might learn something.
ThunderySleep t1_itsvbce wrote
The economy was excellent until the COVID lockdowns.
No sane person believes otherwise.
ell0bo t1_itswjku wrote
Lol, ignoring reality makes you sane?
Yeah, they definitely had to cut rates to 0 for an excellent economy, which meant when covid hit we could only spend our way out. I'd hate to have seen the situation if the economy wasn't excellent.
I appreciate the laugh, thank you.
Hugh_Jarmes187 t1_itun06t wrote
The guy is a fucking idiot, and brainwashed to boot. Perhaps that’s redundant.
Matt-33-205 t1_itqix8v wrote
So the failure to aggressively prosecute violent criminals isn't a factor, even though we know recidivism is extremely high among violent criminals. That's interesting. It's also interesting that krasner blames guns is a problem, yet gun laws have not changed in the city in more than 20 years. They were the same in 2016 as they are in 2022, yet murders in Philadelphia have more than doubled in that time.
I do agree that the government imposed mandatory shutdowns had many negative effects that will linger for years.
ScottEATF t1_itqrufr wrote
If it were a prevailing factor you'd expect to see differences in violent crime increases in areas with progressive DAs adopting similar policies vs areas with tough on crime DAs, but that's not being born out.
Gun laws may have not changed, but gun purchases have absolutely increased in recent years. Which is why police nationwide are seeing sharp decreases in time to crime rates, which track the length of time from purchase to use in a criminal act.
If Philly deserves better the Krasner then opposition to him should be able to pick better candidates then a "Democrat" shilling for the one of the few organizations in Philly people like even less then the DA, the GOP, and a wacko ranting about bathtubs and wanting macho prosecutors.
A legitimate impeachment effort wouldn't have to prop itself up with less then credible studies as indicated by the article. That speaks to this being about politics.
TreeMac12 t1_itrnrm9 wrote
New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis, Atlanta, Portland, Seattle, New Orleans, Boston all have similar District Attorneys and all have similar murder numbers.
Chester, PA and Camden, NJ murder numbers are down. They also have reasonable DAs.
Matt-33-205 t1_itqt5u9 wrote
The root cause of the skyrocketing violent crime epidemic in Philadelphia is clearly visible to anyone who is reasonable and objective.
If you don't prosecute violent criminals, violent criminals will be on the streets and commit violent crime. It really is that simple.
Give me an example of a major city with a tough on crime DA that has seen the murder rate double in the past 5 years. Please educate me.
ScottEATF t1_itr3zf0 wrote
The article contains links to other articles/studies if you want to dig down to where they are getting their info.
It's really telling that you want to try and oversimplify complex issues but are dismissive of Krasner doing similar.
After all, in his view, the root cause is clearly visible to anyone that is reasonable and objective. Gun violence is driving these increases in violent crimes. Gun proliferation has increased sharply. The more guns you have the more gun related crime is going to result. It really is that simple.
The grandstanding can cut both ways.
Matt-33-205 t1_itr8ns7 wrote
Is it possible for you to cite an actual scientific study or reputable data that doesn't come from a left-leaning source? The Brennan Center...
The irony is rich here. You said "correlation does not equal causation", and then cite a left-leaning study that shows crime rates also went up in certain states that voted for Donald Trump in the last presidential election.
I am literally talking about district attorney Philadelphia Larry Krasner who is charged with administering criminal justice in the city. Not Joe biden, not Donald trump, I'm talking about the actual guy who is charged with prosecuting criminals. Larry krasner is failing miserably at his job.
KetchupEnthusiest95 t1_itrh28l wrote
The Brennan Center's sources in this case come from organizations and government data such as the CDC and FBI.
To be frank, its not Krasner who has his own issues. Because if its Krasner, I could also cite the city controller report on the PPD and instead point the blame at the police who seemingly quit doing their job since the BLM protests.
Plus, you've provided no data, just emotional lines.
Matt-33-205 t1_itrn9aw wrote
Lol, I've provided plenty of data and very little emotional arguments. Calling the sky blue isn't an emotional argument, it's simply a statement of fact.
If you don't aggressively prosecute violent criminals, and you release these violent criminals back onto the streets, violent crime will rise sharply. This isn't an emotional argument, this is a statement of fact. It's concerning this isn't obvious to everyone. I've shared the data several times, murders have more than doubled in the city of Philadelphia since krasner became DA.
The leftwing Brennan Center cherry picks data from government sources to support their position. They openly advocate for Progressive policy implementation, they don't hide it.
I will acknowledge that the Defund The Police movement impacted morale among rank and file police officers. I'm not defending that, but it's human nature
KetchupEnthusiest95 t1_itsk6vh wrote
Its an incredibly emotional argument because you're not actively providing evidence that this is happening beyond a few moments.
You've made a bunch of claims, nothing to pack them up and then act high and mighty when we point that out. We provide sources, its not good enough, but the fact of the matter is that one side brought evidence. You've brought 'common sense'.
And you can keep throwing around Philly Numbers about our murder rate, and we've responded back pointing out its a nationwide epidemic of violence in cities with both progressive and conservative DAs. In fact, New York City's DA has simiiliar views to Krasner, they have a fucking 3rd of our crime rate. And both the previous and current DA are progressive in their policies.
So if we're gonna throw around excuses, what about the sorry excuse for the Philadelphia Police Department with a notorious history including the MOVE Bombing, Joey fucking Bologna who got a standing ovation after crushing a teenage girl's head in during the BLM protest, and the FOP who've all but admitted that they want to arrest more black people.
Or how about the number of police in civilian positions wasting our time not patrolling the streets? Why aren't they held to same crushing accountability that Krasner is?
[deleted] t1_itsp9jc wrote
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jesterwords t1_itquf9g wrote
Matt-33-205 t1_itqyt14 wrote
The guy above me asserted that cities with tough on crime DA's have seen similar increases in violent crime compared to those with Progressive DA's who do not aggressively prosecute violent criminals. The link you posted citing one study from a left-leaning think tank offers no example of that happening.
Waru_ t1_itr8oof wrote
The city of Chicago has entered the chat
Lazy-Clock7316 t1_itr6vuv wrote
What about police not pursuing or arresting violent criminals? Philly cops aren’t doing much to help curb the violence. We can’t complain about Krasner not prosecuting if police aren’t arresting people who should be in jail. And another thing, drugs are rampant Philly. I’d say it’s more likely a symptom of the pandemic and the drug crisis.
Matt-33-205 t1_itr9rj9 wrote
I used to be a police officer, and I sympathize with the Philadelphia Police Department rank and file officers. From many officers perspectives, it has been demonstrated repeatedly over the last several years that violent criminals arrested will be released and back on the street in a revolving door justice system.
As an officer, witnessing criminals released and back on the streets can be very demoralizing. It's human nature to begin to take less risks as an officer to bring violent criminals to justice, especially when leadership in the city chooses not to prosecute, and releases them
KetchupEnthusiest95 t1_itrhgi7 wrote
So you have a bias in this conversation because you'd rather be sympathetic to a government organization that was just recently lampooned for bilking tax payer dollars, abusing rules, wasting manpower on civilian positions with police officers and having a union that generally stands in the way of actively fixing the many corrupt issues that permeate the entire PPD.
No wonder you want to blame Krasner, it makes the PPD look better despite them playing a big part in it.
Matt-33-205 t1_itrnoao wrote
My experience with the Philadelphia Police Department has not been positive. I was speaking personally from my experience as a police officer in a different state.
PaApprazer t1_itr7go0 wrote
And you asserted to wanting a legitimate conversation on the topic, but all your doing is insisting that you have it all figured out. Two ears .. one pie hole
Matt-33-205 t1_itr9yex wrote
I don't have it all figured out, but I certainly have some of it figured out. I don't live in an echo chamber, that's why I'm here.
burritoace t1_itra8ww wrote
>The root cause of the skyrocketing violent crime epidemic in Philadelphia is clearly visible to anyone who is reasonable and objective.
That's right, unfortunately you are neither of those things
Matt-33-205 t1_itrblcz wrote
Tell me why it is burrito. Why is violent crime skyrocketing in Philadelphia?
I maintain the primary reason is because Larry Krasner is a progressive district attorney who is very soft on crime and doesn't aggressively prosecute violent criminals.
burritoace t1_itrc317 wrote
Lol nobody cares what you "maintain"
Matt-33-205 t1_itrd8a8 wrote
Lol, I knew better than to attempt to have a reasonable and logical exchange with a burrito.
burritoace t1_itrdmhc wrote
You didn't even try, all you've done here is spout ideological garbage
Matt-33-205 t1_itrffl8 wrote
I'll try one more time burrito, why is violent crime skyrocketing in philadelphia? Why does it correlate with the term of the current district attorney who is very well known to be very soft on violent crime? Honest question, is it just a coincidence? Is there any chance that not locking up violent criminals and allowing them back on the street has contributed in any way to the dramatic increase in violent crime?
burritoace t1_its3sha wrote
Lol I have zero interest in your dumb bullshit, just here to say that's all it is
Matt-33-205 t1_its7aul wrote
Says the chump who won't answer a simple direct question asked repeatedly about the topic at hand.
Why has violent crime skyrocketed in Philadelphia, particularly since 2017?
Soccermom233 t1_itudmqw wrote
Kinda need the PPD to do their job in order to prosecute. They have to solve cases.
"The increase in gun violence coincided with other concerning gun-related trends. As gun violence surged over the last six years, clearance rates — the share of cases solved by the Philadelphia Police Department (PPD) — for homicides and non-fatal shootings declined. In 2020, just 37% of fatal shootings were cleared by the PPD. At the same time, the number of individuals arrested for illegal gun possession increased by more than 100% between 2015 and 2020."
From: https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/data-release-gun-violence-trends/
Lots of admin bloat:
"Of PPD’s approximately 6,000 total officers, only 2,500 are assigned to patrol. In addition to officers assigned to specialized units, many officers (not officers on limited duty) are assigned to positions that conduct administrative work, such as delivering mail. The review found that PPD did not have formalized job descriptions for all positions, making it difficult to assess whether positions could be done by a civilian instead of an officer, a process called civilianization."
From: https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/ppd-review/#/executive-summary
Fun anecdote:
[deleted] t1_itql2zp wrote
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LordKaraka12 t1_itr4khw wrote
Almost like we had a massive event that affected everyone in the country….hmm what could that be?
Hadfromthetown t1_ity5mw7 wrote
I actually want you to answer his question. Do you think the people should have a say or do you think the politicians know what’s best for us?
Matt-33-205 t1_itzepfy wrote
Your question is ironic. You're putting your faith in Krasner who is a politician. Billionaire George Soros is spending as much money as he needs to ensure soft on crime prosecutors like Larry Krasner remain in office. Krasner and Soros insist that not prosecuting nearly as many criminals won't cause a spike in crime, they are obviously wrong and/or lying. But they don't live in the neighborhoods where these crimes are occurring, they can afford armed security, it's absolutely disgusting in my opinion.
To answer your question, the people who voted for krasner deserve who they elect. It's up to the voters to decide.
I've asked some questions that haven't been answered. What is causing the dramatic increase in crime in Philadelphia over the last several years?
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