PA Sheriffs Departments vs Most Other States Sheriffs

Submitted by gruntville t3_121ub8p in Pennsylvania 

Hey all, I figured some of you may be current or former LEO in PA so I was trying to figure something out. I’m not advocating for or against it, but why don’t Sheriffs Depts in PA operate how the majority do in other states? Our Sheriffs Depts don’t even run the jails. I’ve heard everything from “we’re a commonwealth” which doesn’t seem to legally make sense anymore or make us any different in the modern era. I’ve heard it’s the Trooper’s Union, etc. Historically, Sheriffs made sense because we didn’t always have a new municipal agency every 5sq miles or the money to. Does anyone have definitive info why even in rural counties they don’t seem to be the defacto LE Agency? I’ve heard they are in a few with zero municipal agencies, but can’t confirm.
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LurkersWillLurk t1_jdngknp wrote

Under state law they do not have general purpose law enforcement powers. They enforce warrants, security at the courts, and ancillary duties on Election Day. The Municipal Police Jurisdiction Act gives plenary law enforcement power to municipal police departments plus special-district agencies like universities or transit districts.

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gruntville OP t1_jdocnn4 wrote

Did PA Sheriffs ever have what someone would consider “traditional” law enforcement authority? Did they ever run the jails? I keep hearing they’re pushing to be full service agencies like most other states, which in theory makes functional sense, but confused why they aren’t and don’t seem to be making any headway with it.

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Optimal_Bad_8965 t1_jdof01p wrote

In my county the Sheriff department runs the jail.

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gruntville OP t1_jdorqhv wrote

Do you mind if I ask what county you are? I grew up in montco and live in Cumberland and none around me at any point did.

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Socketfusion t1_jdp3pgg wrote

They do have general purpose law enforcement powers. They are duly employed muncipal officers. If a sherrif deputy has cause for any possible felony, misdemeanor, breach of peace, or has been requested to assist by any other law enforcement agency, they can absolutely act in the same capacity as any other police officer. They aren't typically out patrolling or responding to 911 calls because it isn't their assigned duties. Pass a sheriff deputy at high speed over a double yellow and see what the judge thinks when you tell him the officer was forbidden by state law to stop and cite you. It isn't that they can't, it's just that they usually don't. I'm guessing OP's question came because of the recent video of a Berks County sherrif arresting a guy who tried to rob a cabbie. He absolutely had the power to arrest him as a LEO.

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LurkersWillLurk t1_jdp7rw2 wrote

Yes, sheriff’s deputies have the power to address crimes that occur in their presence. That doesn’t change the fact that they are not the primary source of law enforcement services in municipalities. They can’t investigate crimes or respond to calls for service without meeting certain requisite conditions, such as a mutual aid agreement. The Superior Court has a body of case law explaining this.

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worstatit t1_jdqqqkt wrote

Most sheriff deputies are not act 120 certified, thus not police officers in any form.

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Socketfusion t1_jdr2pqw wrote

If they can carry a gun as an officer or enforce criminal and vehicle codes they are act 120 certified. Almost 40% of PA state police employees aren't certified. Because you need people to do all the other stuff. People are confusing sherrif employees with actual deputies. The person who processes your carry permit probably isn't a police officer. But the person who does has a gun and does prisoner transport absolutely is.

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worstatit t1_jdr4fav wrote

If they receive 120 training and pass the requirements, then they are certified. It is not required to be 120 certified to be a deputy sheriff. Deputy certification is different than police certification.

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gruntville OP t1_jdwyjqg wrote

My original question was based on a lifetime of observation as a PA resident and current federal LEO. I keep hearing they are trying to push for Sheriffs to have more LE authority, but have heard it for years. I actually think it’s a great idea, if for nothing more then strictly more rural counties. What always struck me as weird though is that they don’t even run the jails, and I’ve heard in random counties they do functional as patrol officers and answer 911 calls(which I can’t confirm first hand; counties like Tioga for example).

Additionally hearing information like what another poster here stated(that his sheriffs dept in pa runs the jail)which would suggest legally they can(patrol, 911 responce and run county jail) yet we keep hearing debates over legal authority, roles, historical and current, their certification vs Act 120(municipal police certification), etc. All of which feeds back into why is this not much more common, as in most other states, or at the very least more widespread?

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BitchyWitchy68 t1_jdq0pbo wrote

As someone who comes from the South where the Sheriffs Office is notoriously corrupt. Keep it like it is. One thing I like about PA is I’m not scared of the police. In the South, you’re scared of the police whether you are doing something or not. Innocence doesn’t count. They’ll make crap up if they want to. I haven’t seen that here.

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fenga_pappit_ t1_jdnt93w wrote

Can you reformat this message? It's just one long line that's mostly hidden

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gruntville OP t1_jdoch55 wrote

I apologize, I did this on mobile and I don’t see an option to edit/reformat(atleast not on mobile).

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somberblurb t1_jdpfrsz wrote

In most counties in PA, the county jail is operated by the sheriff. Their primary duties are operating the county jail, providing security at the county court, and serving warrants issued by the county court. This can vary depending on the county's needs. For example Montgomery County PA has a Board of Prison Inspectors which runs the jail rather than the sheriff, but this type of board is unique to Mont. Co.

PA Sheriffs and their Deputies can arrest for felonies or breaches of the peace committed in their presence, or if they have a warrant from a judge. Under PA law they are not permitted to investigate crimes. This is indeed mostly unique to PA. In most states the Sheriff has full law enforcement powers, and in much of the south the Sheriff is the primary law enforcement agency responding to 911 calls in rural areas. Here that function is filled by PSP.

The only state with less powerful sheriffs that I know of is Delaware. DE Sheriffs can't make arrests or carry firearms.

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MortimerDongle t1_jdwwkkw wrote

State police are the default law enforcement in PA, and as far as I know that has been the case as long as the state police have existed.

Ultimately, sheriff's deputies are the officers of the courts - not cops. Sheriff's deputies can be (but are not necessarily required to be) fully qualified law enforcement officers but routine law enforcement is outside the scope of their duties. Deputies are eligible to serve in interdepartmental law enforcement groups like regional SWAT teams.

"We're a Commonwealth" comes up as a rumored explanation for a whole bunch of things, but it's legally meaningless.

There are a few other states (all in the northeast) where sheriff's deputies have a similar or even smaller role.

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No_Mission1856 t1_jedjxmt wrote

Why? Townships wanted to control their area. Township supervisors ages ago didnt want a County entity enforcing law in their territory.

Personally the less LE the better the majority of it is harrassment anyway over stupid crap not real crime. LEO will ignore the real crime streets and go mess with joe blow writing tickets.

Why I have a shot gun rack with a old realistic looking toy shot gun in the back window. Yrs ago a County detective I grew up around told me that was the best way to be left alone by PA cops.........🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 its worked for 30+ yrs now. Never been pulled over!

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