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insofarincogneato t1_j9vi20r wrote

I love the inclusion and respect for minority beliefs in Pennsylvania, seemingly on a at least somewhat bipartisan level... However, the state isn't supposed to sponsor religious holidays in the first place. This violates the establishment clause. And yes Christians, so does Christmas.

Also, I'm sorry to disappoint but I don't think this means everyone of your bosses are going to give you a payed day off. 😅

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aoeudhtns t1_j9w9074 wrote

I think there are secular ways to tackle that. Like pass into law that the state observes major religious holidays for any group that passes 1% population threshold. No endorsement of specific religion, and broad support for all citizens.

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UnaffiliatedOpinion t1_j9wdmj9 wrote

I like this. You'd probably need to specify "limit one," and it may be controversial how to draw lines, but it's weird to me to vote in Diwali, but to exclude other major cultures' holidays in the process.

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insofarincogneato t1_j9xlc6w wrote

Sure, I'm sure there's plenty of solutions that don't allow the state to endorse a religion. The real problem is that they could never make every important religious holiday a state holiday, so by focusing on certain ones they are establishing certain religions over others which is what makes it unconstitutional.

Something like you suggested may be a valid solution except it is discriminatory against minority religions that don't have many participants in our state. I think that's why to be safe, it's best that the state doesn't endorse any religious holidays at all, and we should instead focus on changing attendance policies in schools and in the work place that allow folks time off for religious purposes.

Just to add context, your criteria of 1% of our state's population of 12.97 million is still over 120,000 folks. That's a lot of people who's religious beliefs wouldn't be validated. Sometimes I think when we think of a population percentage, it's easy to dehumanize folks and obfuscate a number of folks by using statistics... Think of how some folks treated the CDC reported 18.2 percent of folks who died from covid. 🤷

We can figure out how to limit or regulate that in a way that's fair for everyone so religious folks don't get more time off than none religious. It may look like a policy that doesn't involve religion at all, but personal free time in general.

I don't want to say force companies to offer payed personal days out loud but....I think we should fight for payed personal days and time off from school. 🤷Work from home and remote learning is doing a lot to make it easier to stay productive, let's use it.

What other benefits do State holidays give us?

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Paid-Not-Payed-Bot t1_j9xlcqn wrote

> to offer paid personal days

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

  • Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

  • Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

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alaska1415 t1_j9y0tfb wrote

A day off isn’t, in any way shape or form, an endorsement of a religion.

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insofarincogneato t1_j9y7ump wrote

Tell me you only respect a culture's holiday because it gives you a day off without telling me you only respect a culture's holiday because it gives you a day off.

Seriously, if you think that's what a state holiday is about, I don't know what to tell you.

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alaska1415 t1_j9ymju8 wrote

Nothing you said was in any way a response to anything I said.

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insofarincogneato t1_j9z0jpw wrote

How not? No one else said a day off is an endorsement of religion. You did. I said a state holiday is more than that. Where's the confusion here?

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alaska1415 t1_j9zn9l6 wrote

Are you slow? My comment was in a reply wherein you said a day off in observance of a religious holiday is an endorsement of a religion which violates the establishment clause. I corrected you that it is in fact NOT an endorsement of any religion.

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insofarincogneato t1_j9zqw5a wrote

Nope, I never said a day off was an endorsement of religion, I said a state sponsored holiday is an endorsement. The day off for SOME folks is a result of that sponsorship. The only reference to a day off I made was after that point were I said your boss probably isn't giving you a day off for it. That's why I want to know why you and l assume state holidays are just a day off👍

Even if I did say that, (and I didn't)... it DOES endorse a religion if it doesn't do the same for others.

If your going to keep implying I said something I didn't we have nothing to talk about here. 🤷

Why don't you move on with this conversation and express your reason for why giving specific religion's holidays days off but not every other belief isn't a violation of the establishment clause if you actually want to debate in good faith?

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alaska1415 t1_ja0f6br wrote

You literally did. Now that that’s settled.

It’s also not since:

  1. The action is not coercive.

  2. No one could reasonably see a day off as proselytizing or endorsement.

  3. Christmas (for example) is a holiday, yes, but there are numerous secular holidays as well meaning the government isn’t promoting that they only recognize Christian things, as an example. Saying that giving the day off is a violation would also call into question things like Black History Month as a violation of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments which ban government preference based on ethnicity or race.

  4. Granting days off that hold societal significance is itself a reasonable enough secular purpose.

From Ganlun v. United States:

Instead, the government’s accommodation simply acknowledges the existence of this religious exercise and avoids stifling it. Zorach, 343 U.S. at 314 (“When the state . . . cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs.”)

I hope you’re done playing dumb and actually learn something.

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