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katycake t1_ja1lwzf wrote

Reply to comment by crudedrawer in Madonna 1980s by steroidamoeba

I simply hope she hasn't gone fully overboard, and some of this mess is savable.

She still rather hot 10 years ago. What happened? :(

She was suppose to age eventually. Betty White old as dirt, but she's cute, and still look good well into her 80's. Madonna meanwhile riding a stellar 100 for the longest time, and drops to zero over what feels like months.

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turdusphilomelos t1_ja28x1e wrote

I hate these kind of comments. For women who age it is an impossible "damned if you do, damned if you don't"- situation with ageing. If you age naturally and look old, people forget about you and you get completely ignored. If you try to fight ageing and look young people talk about you, but only to laugh and ridicule you.

Yeah, Betty White aged with grace, but she hade a very different media persona,playing off the "I know I am old, but I still say slightly cheeky and inappropriate things", where she could allow wrinkles to show.

In Scandinavia (I actually don't know how often the term is used in the rest of the world, maybe you all already know about it), we identify a series of "master suppression"-techniques, which are defined as strategies of social manipulation by which a dominant group maintains such a position in a (established or unexposed) hierarchy. One of the strategies is "double punishment", and one classical example of that is how womens attitudes to beaty treatments are treated : "ugly" women tend to be ridiculed, but women who try to look beautiful are seen as superficial and vain.

This "double punishment" strategy is used on ageing women all the time.

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elixier t1_ja2dv9z wrote

> If you try to fight ageing and look young people talk about you, but only to laugh and ridicule you.

If you do surgery and make yourself look deformed, then no, that's nonsense; plenty of women who aged normally are still considered to be attractive and didn't fade away as you say.

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Fortraner t1_ja2n8vp wrote

what's so bad about aging and "becoming fogotten"? so you think messing up your face to stay relevant is okay? why must you be remembered? the spotlight comes and goes, it's not an obligation to remain in it and the past achievements will stay with people forever anyway

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JadowArcadia t1_ja2jfip wrote

I mean why would you expect to be treated as something you no longer are though? Why feel the need to be hot or attractive well into old age? Why try and compete with women half your age? I really don't think it's as "damned if you do, damned if you dont" as people say. It's just that nobody likes getting old and dropping out of the limelight after getting all this attention for so long. It's part of life. Madonna could easily have followed Betty Whites vibe and accepted that she's no longer a 20 year old with sex appeal. That's how you get forgotten. When you keep trying to sell something you no longer have. Madonna seems to put her looks far before her music despite her music being the thing that would really keep her in the limelight.

I also think your "double punishment" theory is being used to specifically highlight women when what you've said clearly applies to the vast majority of people. We know less attractive people are treated worse than attractive people and we know people look down on people who "try too hard". And the older we get the harder we have to try which is why older people who accept where they are in life and don't try so hard end up being percieved as cooler.

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Hocraft-Loveward t1_ja33tfv wrote

>I mean why would you expect to be treated as something you no longer are though? Why feel the need to be hot or attractive well into old age?

Because it's their job.
While you can see plenty of old actors (65 or more) and old male singers, their females couterparts are still some exceptions. and most of the time it's because 'they are still hot' (think dolly parton)

madonna's job is literally to be notorious for being provocative. so nothing new here. just let her be.

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JadowArcadia t1_ja34zog wrote

As much as I see your point, being hot isnt Madonnas job. Her job has always been music. Being hot and provocative was just a supplementary factor. It's not like her career was based around being a model and even if it was, that's not a job you can have forever. Same way you can't be an athlete forever, eventually your body doesn't have it anymore and that's natural and completely ok. Most artists that continue to have lucrative careers aren't managing that based purely around sex appeal. It's their music and often nostalgia that keeps them going.

Also, I feel like your Dolly Parton point ignores how much people like her based on culture, her personality, her charitability etc etc more than just because "they are still hot". I mean a huge amount of Madonna fanbase come from the gay male community. I don't them finding her sexually attractive would be the factor that helped hold onto their support.

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_Lord_Beerus_ t1_ja2ipq2 wrote

‘People ignore you’.. I don’t understand.. is this all about attention seeking?

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