Submitted by Radiant_Helicopter_7 t3_zx3abe in Music
tonetonitony t1_j1yctnr wrote
Bob Dylan is high art. Most of it doesn’t really satisfy casual listeners. It’s like when you go to a museum despite not understanding art history. Hopefully you can appreciate some of it, but there is going to be a lot of work that doesn’t make sense. I don’t understand all of Dylan myself, but I can understand it enough to know it’s special.
Also, listen to it stoned if you haven’t.
libertinauk t1_j1ydcye wrote
This is a great analysis. I'm 52, my parents named me after one of his songs and I've never found anyone who comes close in terms of songwriting.
He wrote this song in one night after being refused a hotel room because of his dishevelled appearance. I could die happy if I'd just written this one song. He dashed this off in a few hours before he'd really even started to show what he was capable of. This song encapsulates this year for me. Happy 2023 to all.
DeadEyeMetal t1_j1z2guj wrote
Dylan is not "high art" unless you mean maybe he was high when he created his art.
Dylan is a songwriter with a reputation that is disproportionately gushing and adulatory for the quality and consistency of his output.
There are many Dylan songs I love but there are just as many that seem, to me, to be grating, incoherent drivel.
Dude has had some great moments but then so have many people who get far less attention.
tonetonitony t1_j200ond wrote
Lol. Literally more than half of your post history is dedicated to Babymetal, and you consider yourself an authority on Dylan and music? Reddit never disappoints.
DeadEyeMetal t1_j2043qd wrote
Dude, I'm 62. The first time I saw a Babymetal video it was so awful it put me off even looking again for years. Then, this year, I saw the video for 'Karate' and gave them another chance - mostly on the strength of their live backing band, Kami Band. Also, I joined Reddit this year, hence the high % of posts on a band I just discovered were actually good.
Do the arithmetic. I had a musical life for 50+ years before that. All that tells you is that I'm still finding new stuff.
But thanks for your thoroughly researched analysis, lol.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j20pfwy wrote
It's offensive to him that you like what you like, and not the very specific list of rock greats that have been signed off on by magazines and critics and halls of fame.
It's all an appeal to popularity and authority, but can they admit that "Hit me baby one more time" by Britany Spears a banger? Certainly not! Pop trash! Never mind that it has more interesting elements than the average Dylan song :P.
You are an elitist for disliking Dylan! Also, what you like is actually bad, so you are also dumb. A dumb elitist!
DeadEyeMetal t1_j23e1fu wrote
'Hit Me Baby' is a classic. It's right up there with 'MmmBop'.
Damn my elitist tolerance for a skillfully executed pop hook. I'm so ashamed...
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j24tout wrote
It’s not enough to merely like something. You must prove it is objectively the best and stifle all other opinions. Only then can you listen to meh music with impunity.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j1yt0l6 wrote
Well, cool, but I have a music degree and at one point I had a music history professor who took us from medieval music to relatively modern pop music over four semesters. During the course of this, the professor went on an absolute Bob Dylan tirade. Like a whole day spent glowing about Dylan, dissecting his lyrics, straight up telling us “this is good. This is deep.”
I think it’s a farce. Literally every person in that room was a better musician than Dylan. It made more sense when I saw the music history professor’s pathetic faculty recital consisting of “folk music”.
Some people like to write music. Some people like to perform music. Some people like to study music. And lastly, some people just like to talk about music. I’m weary of their strongly held opinions.
People can enjoy what music they choose, and it’s not that I “hate” Bob Dylan. But his fans are the people who WOULD WANT to be in charge of handing out accolades and awards (for an art firm they barely understand). Just stop it already.
Also, there isn’t strong enough weed in the world to fix the bag-of-cats that is a Bob Dylan song.
tonetonitony t1_j200m2c wrote
So your theory is that all of the many reputable critics and musicians that think Dylan is a in a league of his own…are morons? And you also think you and your college classmates are better musicians? That doesn’t sound egotistical at all. I’m sure your opinion of Dylan is much more worthwhile than Jimi Hendrix’s or The Beatles’s. What do those guys know about music?
Also, can you link a song of yours that’s supposedly better than Tangled Up in Blue, Visions of Johanna, or Mr. Tambourine Man? I’m dying to hear this.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j204ui6 wrote
Lol I mean the world does not begin and end with pop music so yeah, I think there are many many numerous musicians throughout the world that are more talented than any of the people you cited as authorities. How is that egotistical?
Here’s me playing guitar at age 16, 100,000 years ago:
https://on.soundcloud.com/SRwTL
Here’s something I’ve been working on lately:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j3782DhstGGR2rMPmrHQYU2afw4F0C1B/view?usp=drivesdk
You have better? Is it not diverse enough?
Maybe you hate my music, maybe you like it, but I know what I’m talking about. My tastes are varied as hell. If you ask me who’s a better song writer, Bob Dylan or Willie Nelson, or even Dolly Parton, or even Taylor Swift—yes. I think Dylan is at the bottom of the list in terms of craftsmanship and artistry. Deal with it.
Also, like, I’m a programmer. I stake zero ego on music. I just like it. So what’s my agenda anyway?
I’ve listened to it. I’ve thought about it. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny for me.
Look, musicologists are weird. I knew a guy who got a degree in musicology in part by discussing the history of air guitar (seriously). People who are basically non-doing critics have opinions that are different than the people who do the thing. As for Beatles and Hendrix—mediocrity likes mediocrity, no surprise there, but I do like both Beatles and Hendrix. Also, Hendrix died by puking and the Beatles have done everything from stealing songs to weird culty eastern religious shit. My opinion doesn’t have to be their opinion. They aren’t infallible, just humans.
The world is bigger and more full of talent than you think.
trapezoidalfractal t1_j20gxb5 wrote
Man, you post mindless noodling and freshman level piano composition and compare that to Dylan? Even ignoring song writing entirely, your music you’ve shown doesn’t even show half the depth. Your progressions are boilerplate, your melodies are meh. I mean, it’s not terrible music, but it’s laughable to compare it to Dylan.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j20i7tp wrote
Lol they are not boilerplate chord progressions. The first one is like, one chord, but it's all improvisational. The second one is like... I don't know... modulating constantly? Also like... I'm not sure if you noticed... there's an orchestra there...
Bob Dylan is not known for his chord progressions... They are like 4 chord songs largely, and they are not deep.
Besides, I never compared myself to Bob Dylan. I'm just a hobbyist musician. The previous poster asked for examples of what I've written, those are some examples. I'm clearly literate and competent, am I not? What are you churning out?
To be honest, your characterization of my music shows me you can't hear the depth that is there. It's not like the music is written arbitrarily, it's written mechanically using all sorts of specific techniques, and literally each section of the orchestral piece is modulating to a different key. It's very easy to say a melody is "meh", but saying chord progressions are boilerplate is absurd. If anything, they are much too scattered.
Also like, I showed you some metal shredding and some orchestral+piano music. It's kind of varied, isn't it? I honestly think I could replicate an approximation to Dylan's music than the other way around. I'm a craftsman like that, where as he is not. Granted, there's nothing innovative in it, but there's not much innovative in Dylan either IMO.
tonetonitony t1_j20m88z wrote
So now you’re calling Hendrix mediocre after you post your cheesy shred and elevator music? It’s painfully clear that you don’t have an ear for this, but feel free to keep telling yourself you know what you’re talking about.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j20mk93 wrote
Post your own music :P
Something tells me I could never post anything that you would equate with the absolute gorgeousness that is Dylan.
And yeah, my track is a cheesy wank fest. I learned from the best (Hendrix).
tonetonitony t1_j20pjhv wrote
I don’t post music here because I want to stay anonymous on Reddit. It’s besides the point, though. You’re the one claiming to be better than Dylan, not me.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j20pox3 wrote
Literally never claimed that, only that Dylan is trash and most people are better than Dylan in my opinion.
>It’s besides the point, though.
Lol convenient. Every track you've ever recorded is so tightly correlated to your identity. I'm sure you are Quincy Fuckin' Jones.
tonetonitony t1_j20qx6r wrote
> Literally every person in that room was a better musician than Dylan.
PossibilitySuperb465 t1_j20r06d wrote
lol Fine. Everyone but me. Happy? Honestly, I don't care how good you think I am, or if I'm better than someone else. The only reason I posted anything is to show that I know how to write music.
All you guys do is appeal to popularity, demand support, demand proof of competency, demand agreement, and you provide nothing in return. You aren't even capable of having a technical discussion about Dylan's music seemingly.
Honestly, I'd rather you tell me one specific thing you love about a piece of music Dylan has written, in musical terms. I will go and listen to that thing and try my very hardest to hear it as you do.
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