How do i tell the lead singer of my band that they aren’t that good?

Submitted by MiniFestSam t3_11e3qjt in Music

Ok i know that title makes me seem bad, but our lead singer isn’t a good frontman. he never addresses the crowd, and he isn’t that much of a good singer, his strengths lie in writing the songs, he’s absolutely ace.

After the bands gigs i have people telling me they liked my backing vocals and never compliment him, i’ve also had people tell me privately that i should replace the singer or that ‘the singer needs to go’.

Bit stumped on where to go next.

i should probably add that i am an acoustic act outside of the band. just me singing and a guitar :)

Edit: Thank you everyone for the replies! Going for a beatles route. whatever i write i sing and vice versa :)

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trustysteed7878 t1_jac7bdu wrote

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the movies, ya gotta put it to a band vote. In rehearsal, you could also ask to sing some and see how the rest of the group reacts. Does he play anything else? If not, that’s definitely a bummer but you should always shout his song writing credits out when you can if you end up taking over as lead.

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void64 t1_jac7po7 wrote

Whip out autotune, maybe he’ll take the hint.

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trustysteed7878 t1_jac9tyq wrote

Replying to MiniFestSam (#2,099,186)

Oh that’s great. I do worry that even if you or the band do mention you’d rather sing lead, he would assume he would be on backup vocals. It’s a tough one. Instead of saying you’re bad at singing though, I would frame it in terms of what would be best for the band’s success.

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Reelplayer t1_jacabdg wrote

Just remember, it's far easier to play than it is to compose. Lyrics are of low value (you can write nonsense and nobody cares if it sounds good), but musical composition is what makes a song good. If you can't replace that, figure out how to make it work with him, because the songs leave with him.

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jazzdrums1979 t1_jacaivs wrote

Plan B, start forming a side project outside of this band where you can sing and let them fade into obscurity. I don’t think you telling your lead singer they’re no good will turn out well.

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bullybullybully t1_jacakgu wrote

Oh man, we had this problem and ultimately it is a big part of why our band kinda fizzled, so I would say just be honest but as kind as possible. Not everyone is a frontman and that’s okay. Don’t do what we did, which is stick it out for 8 years at moderate success only to look back and cringe at live videos.

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Motivationgonewrong t1_jacapmk wrote

Just tell him honestly what you think and bring up a solution. He may as well stay in the band and learn to play an instrument. Tell him to buy a 100$ synth and tell him to drone until he learns something more complicated. Or help him find a teacher. I’ve seen people learn to be in tune and loose the ability as well as they stopped practicing.

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jdragun2 t1_jacb1sj wrote

Hire a vocalist who can BE a front man. There are very very few player/singer combos who have the charisma to be a real front man. There are a ton of talented singers to get onboard all over the country, or world really.

Don't suggest taking it over. You blow up any relationship and one or both of you will crash and burn out of the band. I've been in a couple groups where this scenario played out, as a lot of singers who suck think they are great, and it always ends badly.

Get a real front man and avoid this topic in this manner.

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FortuneLegitimate679 t1_jacd2aw wrote

Well if he writes the songs and is “the front man” it’s kinda technically his band. If he leaves do you still have material?

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GoodMerlinpeen t1_jacdvxp wrote

Write some songs and ask if you can sing them sometime. It doesn't have to be one or the other, look at the Beatles.

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FullRollingBoil t1_jacf1wi wrote

I would love to hear some of your stuff to see what you’re talking about

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Kee134 t1_jacgf5m wrote

It sounds to me as if you're unhappy being in the band and would prefer to focus on your solo thing?

Or that you'd rather do the lead vocals?

If that's the case and you're sure, then just take your shot. There's no good way of telling somebody it isn't working that they'll be happy with. Especially when egos are involved. But obviously be prepared for the consequences. If he leaves, then the songs he's written are gone.

Being a front man is a hard gig. Especially at the amateur level where the crowds are small and mostly composed of friends/family. If he's struggling in that department you also could get him to watch good frontmen on youtube to see what they do and try to pick up some tricks.

As for vocals, there's no shortcuts to being good, you need to just keep practising.

Also beware of family and friends feedback to a certain degree, unless you trust their musical opinions enough to have them in your band. They may be trying to give you feedback they think you want to hear!

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Junkstar t1_jach5qs wrote

It depends on what you guys want, ultimately. How far do you want to go? If you want a full pro career, then yes, replace the weak links. Time is short. These decisions are potentially career altering.

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homophobicgalleta t1_jaci3rv wrote

if you guys want to be serious about taking more gigs, consider making a 'feedback session'. where you openly discuss where you want to go and how everyone can improve. this can go sideways when not approached the right way so look up some tips and tricks so people will not feel attacked.

If are all receiving some compliments and some criticisms, maybe he will feel less ganged up upon and singled out.

My best tip is to try to emphasize its you guys vs. stagnant progress problem. not you guys vs singer. unless you've got your mind set on kicking him out of course, maybe first give him the opportunity to improve and work on the feedback from you guys. Playing an instrument is not a skill that's learned in one day, and similarly just becuase he doesn't have it naturally doesn't mean that there's no opportunity for him to become a stage animal in the long run.

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Kai_Daigoji t1_jacic37 wrote

There are ways to practice being more of a front man. Find some videos on YouTube, and talk to him. See if you can find some examples to help him figure out his own persona, and spend some time getting comfortable being that persona on stage.

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MaxBulla t1_jacjnlg wrote

Honesty is the only way. Just tell him that you're now an instrumental only band

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Yourmomisnotshy t1_jacjsp2 wrote

Replying to Reelplayer (#2,099,998)

Strongly disagree with this “lyrics are of low value” and the rest you said. I could hear the best music ever and if someone gets up with some nonsensical shit then it immediately sucks. Subjective. To each their own.

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gdtimmy t1_jackqs9 wrote

Sorry, in the band world…you gotta be honest early!

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gdtimmy t1_jackw2u wrote

Don’t pull punches…tell them YOUR opinions, not what others have said. Honest heartfelt and stern!

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TheeEssFo t1_jacm1f7 wrote

First, you don't do it in the press. It makes it less awkward after he's back in the fold, as was the case with Anthrax and Joey Belladonna.

Second, take lessons from Kids In The Hall.

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davidchagrin t1_jacmfkm wrote

I've been in a similar situation. Lead singer's voice wasn't great, but he wrote great songs. However, he recognized this and started taking lessons in vocal training. His voice improved dramatically over some months. The vocal improvement boosted his confidence which made him a better front man. All this just to say that there's hope.

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YoshimiUnicorns t1_jacmt8t wrote

Soften the blow by telling him he's like Bob Dylan. Great writer, terrible singer

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EVEseven t1_jacny7t wrote

Every band needs someone (during practice sessions) to call out mistakes.

Stop the song and figure out what's wrong

Tell him he's hitting wrong vocal notes or tell him he's messing up the guitar part etc.

If you can't take criticism in practice well you're not going to be a very good band.

If you point out a lot of mistakes hopefully he'll get the hint. There's a way kf doing it constructively. Like sing into the mic with him to try and hit the note etc.

Watch recordings of shows and critique yourself etc.

Start from a place of let's get better

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Karl_Marx_ t1_jacoupc wrote

Band meeting, and maybe you are the one that isn't as good at singing as they think. Would have everyone involved with the decision. Good luck, someone's feelings will probably get hurt.

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ChappaQuitIt t1_jact9aq wrote

Ooof I’ve been there. You need to have a band meeting about it. Start out by saying this is not a personal issue, it’s a band issue. If you (plural) are serious about the band, you need to take steps to make things better as a whole. Things like performances, make sure we’re hitting our cues, not staring at the guitar necks, etc. then broach the topic of singing. My gut tells me he’s not exactly confident in his abilities either. Tell him he has to let go and be engaging and ENTERTAINING, not just fill notes. Have the other guys chime in that you’ve received bad feedback and want to make it better. Then tell him you love the songs but can we explore having a dedicated singer? Make sure he gets a composer rights to the songs in return. Win win.

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Dudeus-Maximus t1_jacthrh wrote

As a singer and frontman…

I need my people to tell me when I sound bad. I have a lot of range and can go a lot of different directions with my sound, but that lead to issues in itself. If I need to change modes, I need to be told. I don’t always hear it myself. Not sure how your relationship is, but my people will tell me if I need to do something else.

Now, they won’t just say, yo that sucks. They tend to be more subtle than that. Like, maybe try your Elvis voice on this one. Or go goblin mode, you’re not high enough. Or hey, do that thing. Or whatever they need to say to get me on track.

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thesaltwatersolution t1_jactia1 wrote

Replying to bullybullybully (#2,100,074)

Bands are funny things aren’t they, like you end up playing with a group of people and you build this connection with so it can be kinda hard to say or suggest stuff. Ultimately I think it comes down to just how invested you are in the band, what it means to you and how seriously you wanna take it.

I definitely advocate for suggesting something and giving people time to think on things. You’ve had this thought and have sat and stewed on it for a while now, but the other people haven’t. So give them time to think stuff over as well. People need to digest stuff and take stuff in and process info.

A few examples of famous band dynamics:

The Who- Roger Daltry was the front man, but Pete Townsend wrote the music and lyrics.

R.E.M. - At the beginning Micheal Stipe was an incredibly shy and awkward front man. He would even turn his back to the crowd during early gigs, lots of mumbly vocals. There’s an early tv appearance of them on Lettermen where Stipe hides away after they finish playing so he doesn’t have to deal with the cost chat with Dave.

He also openly admits to not knowing what he was doing when they were recording early albums and whenever they asked him to do a retake and gave advice, he didn’t understand so he would just sing it differently. Point is, people can grow and develop. That’s however not always the case, but it can happen.

They also always spilt the writing credits evenly between them all. Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe.

Sonic Youth- Kinda spilt the vocal duties 3 ways. Maybe Thurston was the band leader, but I wouldn’t say he was the front man.

Point is, is that it’s your band. You get to create the dynamic. Sometimes awkward, tough conversations are needed- comes back to how seriously you are taking it.

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fatboyfall420 t1_jactm3n wrote

So here the thing if he writes all the material he id going to have alot of influence of over the band. If you want to change front men someone else is gonna have to start contributing writing wise.

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DetroitsGoingToWin t1_jacugcq wrote

Video it, watch it with him, then e honest and tell him. He’s not only limiting the band but he’s limiting himself. Or Maybe it’s something he can fix. If his writing is great, he’s getting in his own way by not giving the song the justice it deserves. You might get run, but fuck it, why waste your time sucking if your band mate won’t get out of his own way.

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Yourmomisnotshy t1_jacy021 wrote

Replying to Reelplayer (#2,105,109)

Oh no. I’ve listened, seen him multiple times, but not a fan. Have never once put one of his albums on because I wanted to hear it. I’m guessing you must be huge fan of bands like the bloodhound gang or even weird Al. They aren’t selling out arenas. Someone like Bob Dylan with one of the most annoying voices are considered one of the greatest artists based on his writing. I think your theory is way off (even if you want to die on the Beck hill). But again, all subjective and I hope you enjoy your likes. Might as well just listen to EDM for the sounds…

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atomicsnarl t1_jacyugm wrote

You could put it something like this:

"Ok guys, if we want to go further down this road, we have to be honest and take a hard look at our strengths and weaknesses. You all have contributed a lot to our group, and we need to get more focused. Where's your comfort zones? ..... Here's some of the feedback I'm getting from our listeners....."

The Beatles fired Peter Best and changed to Richard Starkey. They were able to make these type of decisions.

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McDonalds_Toothpaste t1_jad12n0 wrote

Why'd you make him the lead singer in the first place if he's not good? Is it his band? Were you desperate for a singer?

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Drunken-dreamer87 t1_jad1hs9 wrote

Tell him to practice. If he can’t handle it he’s got no business in show business.

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myleftone t1_jad1k1k wrote

The great original bands have someone driving them. It’s probably the one writing, getting the gigs, showing the most skill, rousing the crowd, and expressing a vision for the band’s future.

Before you talk to your singer, you have to decide if you’re the driver. I can’t tell you how many musicians I’ve held back because I wasn’t the driver, or the talent, but nobody else took the wheel.

If you have the vision, and you can see that your frontman is great at something else, maybe lead guitar, and you should be the lead singer, map out a plan and say so. If it means he’s out, figure out how the band continues without him.

Do it soon. The number of musicians who never grabbed the wheel fills stadiums every summer weekend…as the audience.

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GreaterMook t1_jad1u7o wrote

Is there another position for them in the band? Maybe just have them switch to that, so you can keep them in the band and keep their songwriting abilities around

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elom44 t1_jad27ok wrote

Hey maybe it would be an interesting dynamic for the song if I sang this verse?

Don't miss your shot.

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Chocolate_Rage t1_jad5akr wrote

Replying to Yourmomisnotshy (#2,103,051)

I'm the opposite personally. When I hear a song, I only really hear the music and vocal melody. In certain styles of metal, you can't even decipher the lyrics lol

The lyrics themselves don't really stick in my mind. I can hear a song a hundred times and still not know the words

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Fubar-Bristol t1_jad5g9d wrote

It’s a tough one! The best lead singers / front people are those who are constantly striving to get better.

I’d say your points could deffo be classed as constructive and if the singer can’t handle that sort of critique then the music business might not be for them.

We have a policy in our band that all criticism like this should be done openly (and frequently) with the whole group.

In the end of the day you’re only trying to make the group better!

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Yourmomisnotshy t1_jad62ei wrote

Replying to Chocolate_Rage (#2,109,954)

Thanks for the comment. That is SO interesting. It just goes to show how people connect differently to music. There really is something for everyone. I am totally opposite (I mean unless I can’t understand it like some slipknot or heavier metal then I just assume I like what they are singing about haha)

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Current_Ad6252 t1_jad6n74 wrote

people aren't that bad of singers generally it's because theyre singing out of their range. Maybe tell him to write the songs in keys more natural to his voice, he might just need more practice too to get comfortable unless you guys have been doing this a long time. Tbh having a good songwriter is way more important than someone with amazing vocals

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PerroRosa t1_jad9za6 wrote

I faced the same situation. Talking with honestly is the only way. The problem is when they have no criteria, are not aware if they are sucking on something, and/or are unable to understand or accept that there are some weak points they could improve. That's what happened to us, and it looks like this is the case for you too. Still, we tried talking several times as honestly as we could, to no effect. They simply wouldn't accept their shortcomings. Ultimately I figured we were meant to form a band, our tastes and criteria were way too different, so I simply quit, along with other unhappy members.
Have a non-aggressive talk and figure this key aspect out, you can tell in one talk if it is going to work or not, and if not, do not waste more time on something that has no reason to change.

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the_dionysian_1 t1_jadatz3 wrote

Depends. Do you want him to stay on as a songwriter/lyricist? Because you could begin with that as a compliment. Then lead into saying you all would like to pursue the possibility that lead vocals might sound better with a different singer (like maybe a female lead? I say this because a lot of guys have never even considered whether or not a female lead would sound better & can't really argue against it without hearing it).

If you'd rather drop the guy, even as a songwriter, well, then just be up front about it. If the person can actually sing (as in, hits the right notes consistently) but their tone color just doesn't fit, well, there's no amount of arguing that can make that work.

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greengrayclouds t1_jadbyb8 wrote

Don’t talk to the band behind his back and then drop it on him - he’ll react with hostility (which is reasonable given the back-stabby, gossipy nature).

Just talk to him directly (but kindly) about your concerns, and be open to his feedback too

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mertskirp t1_jadczne wrote

Replying to DetroitsGoingToWin (#2,106,447)

Browsing this post mostly out of curiosity, but I really like this reply. Dude is tripping over his own feet if the singing is as bad as OP says and the songwriting as good as OP says.

If the band has trouble separating business talks from personal feelings, suggest it as something fun. Maybe next rehearsal ask him to switch roles with you for one song just for fun and see what happens. Maybe he’ll see his song come to life and agree with you

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across777 t1_jadf8bp wrote

If he is writing most of the songs, then that can make it awkward but it can also be an opportunity.

If you are willing to sing his songs and be the frontman, he may end up loving it, if he can be more of a backing vocals/guitarist. Most people take a lot of pride in the songs that they write, and mostly they just want to share them and for people to enjoy listening to them. So if it was ME, and I wrote some good songs, I'd want them to be performed as well as possible, even if that meant someone else singing. Of course, he has to agree that you're singing it better than him, but that would be where video of shows/practices, and/or votes from other band members. Good luck

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guitangled t1_jadjsj4 wrote

You don’t. You start your own project

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dickleyjones t1_jadkgz7 wrote

reading after you edit...the beatles route wont work if he is singing terribly on stage. there are many things music listeners will tolerate, bad singing not tolerated well at all.

that said...there may be room for improvement. lessons may help. in ear monitors will almost definitely help. if he can improve to sing well, then he deserves that chance.

when it comes to the actual deed, it is going to be very difficult for him. when someone criticizes musicianship, it doesn't get more personal than voice. the voice is literally his body, guitarists can blame the guitar, the amp, the strings. a vocalist only has their actual body involved. so keep that in mind when you talk about it.

just my opinion, been a part of many bands over the years.

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lellololes t1_jadlr90 wrote

Replying to Yourmomisnotshy (#2,110,196)

I'm another member of the "lyrics don't really matter" club.

The way the song feels as a whole is far more important to me. Vocals are just a very versatile instrument.

This isn't to say that lyrics never matter, though.

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TheCharlieUniverse t1_jadls6x wrote

Do you have videos of your band playing? If so, watch them together and analyze. Everyone should be looking for ways to improve. Offer compliments when necessary and specific criticism.

Things you can do now: Build in points in the set where the singer addresses the audience. Talk about movement and how it enhances the experience for the audience. Find examples outside of your band that achieve the effect you’re looking for and take inspiration from them.

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slowy t1_jadmy06 wrote

Replying to Chocolate_Rage (#2,109,954)

This is super true with electronic too - heavily distorted samples, unidentifiable l/random sounds like chair scraping across the ground, one of my fave song is in Spanish and it doesn’t matter - the overarching composition of the song, coming together in a connected, sometimes sprawling, way. Really it’s true for all instrumental music, but in a lot of electronic music I listen to human voice is used as a sound that’s not meant to be directly parsed.

That said, I also appreciate complex and meaningful lyrics in a different way, as an additional layer in some music, but not necessary. I also don’t think someone needs to be a classically good singer to be good. Some genres have people sing flat or off key and that’s what actually works for the music.

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idonthavexbox t1_jadnscv wrote

If you wanna sound polite, which is not the best move, try convincing him to give you a chance. Yes, make it look like a chance and impress him. Maybe then there are chances he'd be willing to put you as the singer

Or, this is the best way, approach him, and tell him what you think. It's a band, a business.

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Middle_Cut7379 t1_jadxvsr wrote

If your serious about your band and get professional gigs . You must tell the vocalist to smarten up or simply replace him. But if you are all just mates getting a few xtra bucks on the side then let it be

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wutangjan t1_jadyikc wrote

Try the "Gordon Ramsey".

That's fucked! You're bonkers! Tell me honestly you don't think there's a problem with what you just did...

You have got to be the. worst. frontman I've ever seen in my entire life.

I only see one problem with this band and it's YOU!

then once he starts crying, be like

Yo man we got you some voice lessons and signed you up for improv classes to work on your showmanship, you're really an incredibly important part of the band, and we want to help you start taking charge, open up, and put our band back on the map.

Oh and we got you some new clothes... Wear them...

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wutangjan t1_jadz9i4 wrote

Replying to sagscout (#2,107,550)

Hey guys I started working on this ship but the captain isn't what I expect a captain to be. All the other boats seem to just ignore him, and he hasn't put anybody in the brig in like, a really long time.

Does anyone have any experience with mutiny? We really like his boat, but again he's really just kind of in-the-way of us sailing it to better waters...

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Lethkhar t1_jadzibm wrote

Be honest. Vocals is something you can improve with practice, but you can't do it if you don't even know it's a problem.

And as a decent singer who struggled with being a frontman for a long time, I suggest trying to build up their confidence by literally making that be part of the band practice. They need to get used to not being judged/feeling self conscious while they rock out to the music.

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odigon t1_jae3t3b wrote

Replying to Dudeus-Maximus (#2,106,127)

I see lots of would be singers who cant hear themselves for some reason and are off key, or mumbly, or just terrible. Gives me nightmares that I might be as oblivious as them and no one will tell me. I started singing because my bands actual singer left, but I hadn't got comfortable yet so I asked the lead guitar guy if I sounded alright (I knew I didn't), and he said "Dont worry, the guitar drowns you out anyway".

These days I'm a lot better at keeping in key and I mostly worry about expression and dynamics. But it took a while.

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wutangjan t1_jae4rwo wrote

Replying to ls743 (#2,120,107)

The band is the bands band. Not OPs, or the leads, or mine or yours. That's why the band votes.

That said, the vessel that carries a band is the music and if I was in a band that wanted to kick me out and keep my music, playing it as their own, I would not go softly into the night.

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nerd4code t1_jae9ccg wrote

What you do is, all of you need to keep a half-step up or down from him (except him, obvs. or he’d run out of kstack and BSOD, and using that as the basis for a kick-out might look bad), and then confront him afterwards with his obvious tone-deafness.

Now, if he’s not tone-deaf, he’ll self-correct and y’all’ll have to switch to and from the actual notes as he does (I recommend a gradual sinusoid around the usual pitch—it helps, if signing, to pretend you’re an 80-year-old contraltos with a helluva vibrato). That’ll take practice and your keyboardist keeping a spare elbow on pitch bend, but it’ll only boost your own, personal musicalities to get good at it, giving you a higher horse to spit at your lead singer from (or whatever people are supposed to do with their high horses).

The audience is likely to notice y’all modulating like crazy people, but pretend it’s intentional and part of your unique sound, and it was Frontman’s idea anyway, but you’re getting rid of him so it’ll be obscenely normal/non-unique next time.

Or just tell him. Less fun tho’.

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EdClauss t1_jaeaxtt wrote

We had the same situation with our original bass player. We approached him as a band and told him that we felt it wasn't working out, as he wasn't up to playing the music we had picked. He agreed, and we parted ways as friends. Honesty is the best policy. As others have said, maybe he can be a better front if he puts the guitar down. Tough situation all around. I can say this.... every personnel change we made (there weren't many) over ten years made us a better band.

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Kboard_Warrior_Kill t1_jaedkhd wrote

After they're done singing cough and say you suck all in one breath. I'd like to call it a Coughyousuck. 🤣

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ls743 t1_jaedtj2 wrote

Replying to wutangjan (#2,121,310)

I don’t get the impression that’s what OP is trying to do, but okay. I also wasn’t trying to say the band belonged to OP, just that the front man joined after OP was already a member of said band. I assumed the “captain” you were referring to was the front man, implying it was his band that he started. Sorry if I misunderstood

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DeadEyeMetal t1_jaeklqu wrote

Replying to farmerjoee (#2,113,315)

>He plays guitar, sings and fronts, and writes the songs? It’s his band.

Not that simple. One band I was in was started by the drummer. He was the guy with the connections who got the gigs. He was the diplomat who kept friction in the band to a minimum. He found all the people in it, including me, and put together a band that worked well. He didn't sing, front the band, play any instrument but drums or write songs.

We had a great singer who was a natural frontman and a great harmonica player. He didn't write but he arranged pretty much every song. He got most of the attention at gigs and was the guy everyone knew. It wasn't his band.

When the drummer had to go on hiatus the band didn't continue. It was his band in all our opinions.

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PhantomTroupe-2 t1_jaexqwl wrote

Honesty bro. If he’s a solid dude he will appreciate knowing where his strengths lie early on.

Shit if he improves his voice he can still let him lead some songs later lol just the dude with the best voice needs to be lead

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Cleppert t1_jaf2pud wrote

Yeah let him embarrass himself enough with him singing his own lyrics, he'll get the idea, especially with everybody telling you and not telling him directly that he sucks.

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