Submitted by Lol32112300 t3_118c6tl in Music
It’s crazy how Hip-Hop has by far become the most versatile genre in the world. In the 90s most of the hip-hop songs sounded the same and you could easily put them all in the same category. But if you listen to Playboi Carti and then listen to Nas, you wouldnt think they’re the same genre of music at all
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Link me one popular rap song without a hook
The entire history of battle rap is a hookless practice. Again, i only said sometimes to begin with. But there are plenty of examples.
In fact, here's a couple lists I found immediately from Complex & XXL
https://amp.www.complex.com/pigeons-and-planes/2013/08/best-rap-songs-without-choruses
Those are not popular rap songs and 2 of them are from 15+ years ago lol
Well now you're just bein goofy. I didn't say the most popular rap songs don't have hooks, did I? I said sometimes rap doesn't even add hooks to diversify its structure. Then I showed you three examples from three of the most popular rap artists of all time, because you wanted to bring in popularity like that's a relevant factor. Plus who tf cares if it's from 15 years ago? In your OP you literally listed Nas as an example. He started over 20 years ago. Rap ain't that versatile, it ain't that complicated.
Rap is way more versatile than rock brodie
lacks sufficient evidence repeats original theory as evidence of original theory
I get the feeling you're associating versatility with evaluative assessment. Those are different things. Just because something is less versatile doesn't mean it's less good, or valid. It's just a different thing.
If you don't wanna accept rock, then take jazz, and then it's game over. Nothing is more versatile than jazz. That was the whole spirit of jazz to begin with. Improvisation.
Sadistik has a ton of songs without hooks.
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Dude something being lesser known has zero relevance to a binary question. You're not even worth arguing with because you just want* rap to be the most versatile because you think that makes it better somehow. Hip hop is like my #2 genre in life & i'm still smart enough to recognize it isn't because of its versatility.
Its like you're saying a grilled cheese sandwich is more a complex recipe than Pad Thai. It's just not. And then you're like "but pad thai doesnt even taste good". Like bro that shit has nothing to do with what you said.
He lost me when he said everything in the 90s sounded the same. Seems like an edgy teenager that's just here to jerk off his favorite mainstream rapper. I can't take him seriously.
Im foolish for disregarding that outta pocket statement in the first place & continuing to argue with him.
Looks like the kid does quite a bit of shit posting and trolling in music subs.
It kind of sounds like you don’t know a lot of hip hop
I would definitely know Playboi and Nas are the same genre.
Now listen to something like Coltrane's Giant Steps next to Armstrong's version of Hello Dolly next to Birdland by Weather Report. A genre like Jazz just has so many more directions it can go off on than Hip-hop or virtually any other genre, because of how it plays with modes, and rhythms, and chord progressions. It really makes Hip Hop seems very homogenous in comparison.
Exactlyyyyy. Even rock's most versatile corners are just stealing from jazz haha.
Do these two songs sound like they definitely are in the same genre? https://youtu.be/buincVFp-yM and https://youtu.be/JRK_in-dkRY
They're both sample based electronic instrumentals in 4/4 time within a 10-15bpm range of eachother, both with spoken word poetry & an emphasis on simple kick drum patterns & bass frequencies.
It ain't rocket science.
Stop breathing has heavy autotune and has melodic parts, not just spoken word poetry.
Autotune is just an effect, just like reverb, delay, or compression. Thats like saying "metal is different because it has distortion." Thats not what makes it different.
Thats cool and all but Carti used autotune as an instrument
Alright this is my last comment cos its clear you just don't know a lot about what defines a genre but are too stubborn to deal with that.
Using it "as an instrument" (which isnt even possible, because its literally an effect. You cant have autotune without something to use it on. Autotune doesnt generate a sound that didnt come from something else) it still doesn't make it a versatile genre. Hip hop traditionally doesnt even use instruments. Every other genre in the world besides electronic branches do. Thats not very versatile. This is a fundamentally ignorant point of view to have. Why do you think there isn't a single comment on this thread that agrees with you? It's all good, but its just incorrect. It has nothing to do with rap being cool or being worth listening to. It has everything to do with basic theory & music history. Go read about it. Or better, actually listen to more music.
Yeah, actually, they do. They sound like two subgenres of the same basic thing with negligible differences.
Good argument, Id say the same about all rock sub genres
Except you'd be wrong. They all use guitars & drums, sure. But prog rock operates in fucking wild time signatures, with sometimes multiple bridges per song, refrains, and really broad styles of guitar playing that oftentimes come from different continents.
Kraut-rock guitar playing has nothing to do with the delta southern blues guitar licks.
I disagree. Hip hop IS modern jazz. Old Jazz is very restrictive. Almost every standard is based on the ii-V-I chord progression, and in 4/4. The instrumentation is very predictable, and since Charlie Parker, basically every jazz musician has the same way of phrasing. It’s a genre that is comprised mostly of melodic cliches that were established in the 40s and 50s. Jazz fans always want to hear the same shit at every gig. The only people who are pushing jazz forward are hip hop artists like madlib, Robert Glasser and terrace Martin. Don’t get me wrong, A Love Supreme is one of my favorite records of all time. But in 2023, hip hop is what Jazz turned into.
OP has no clue about music 🤣 keep trying to impress yourself lol
Obvious troll.
The fact that people see a name like u/Lol32112300 and think that they’re making arguments in good faith
You right, you right. I feel dumb af for thinkin this guy was not a troll
For what it’s worth, all of your write-ups were very well done & i learned a lot from them, so I should be thanking you for feeding the troll, lol
LOL hey thanks!
This ain't it, bro
That’s not that true though. Look at the punk scene: hardcore, hardcore punk, street, crust, d beat, power violence, emo, screamo, pop-punk, it’s the same thing. A lot of these genres have huge sub genres attached, it’s really every scene.
Genres are an approximation.
Really, genres are irrelevant
It has become far more versatile but I’d see that more as hip hop catching up with other genres. It’s still a much younger musical form than many other styles and it was far more guarded in its early days. It is great to see all the new stuff coming out as people are goofing with the formula.
Because Nas is a real rapper and playboi Carti is a fake fuck.
Hip hop and Punk rock have a lot in common, historically speaking.
Hip Hop is definitely not the most versatile genre in the world. That title would have to belong to rock music. There's really nothing to debate there. However, the idea in your head that Hip Hop has only recently become versatile is entirely fantasy.
The 90's had G-Funk, Crunk, Chopped & Screwed, Horrorcore, Alternative Hip Hop, Boom Bap, Bounce, Miami Bass, & Chopper, which were all uniquely sounding subgenres of Hip-Hop. You're a fool if you think they all sounded alike in the 90's. They were more versatile back then than they are now.
Also, you talk about Nas as if he is a modern rapper. Lmfao, Nas debuted in the same era that you say isn't versatile and then used him as an example to explain how versatile Hip-Hop is today. How tf does that make sense? If you're going to make a case for how versatile modern Hip-Hop is then you should at least use examples of modern Hip-Hop artists. Wtf?
However, back to my original point... Rock is hundreds of times more versatile than Hip-Hop will ever be. Metal and Punk both started as subgenres of Rock before becoming genres in their own right and, themselves, spawning subgenres of their own. There are literally hundreds - if not thousands - of subgenres, microgenres, fusion genres and derivatives of rock music.
Rock music is so big that the fans of it's music developed entire subcultures around it. You had rockers (rockabillies), hippies, greasers, deadheads, goths, cybergoths, emos, scene, metalheads, crusties, psychobillies, riot grrrls, surf punks, gutter punks, straight edge punks, skinhead punks, neo-nazi punks, (enter name here) punks. All of these were entirely different subcultures that developed because of rock music or one of its derivatives.
The only subcultures that came from Hip-Hop are like mainstream rap culture, wangstas and juggalos. Hip-Hop simply can not compete with how many subgenres or subcultures that rock music has developed over the years. Rap music simply doesn't have the diversity that is obvious when you listen to Elvis Presley before transitioning to Ozzy Osbourne; the Beatles to GG Allin, Metallica to Cannibal Corpse, etc. I could point out even more polarizing extremes but I chose those artists to make my point because more people are familiar with them. Hip-Hop isn't anywhere near as diverse or versatile as Rock music, regardless of which metric you use to measure it.
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Strongly disagree. The genre is based on looped beats and spoken word vocals. Not alot of variation there, sonically.
Rock on the other hand has countless subgenres. One rock subgenre, metal, has countless subgenres on it's own.
Not a lot of variation sonically? https://youtu.be/uAPUkgeiFVY vs https://youtu.be/2a8PgqWrc_4
lol
No it's not, hip-hop is def the most versatile genre in the world
Dude. Stop posting click bait "opinions" on various subs. Your profile is suspicious. You will be reported as a bot.
I would say that hip hop is really diverse but I think that metal has many more subgenres and different types
zimmerdaon t1_j9g9o6m wrote
Gotta firmly disagree here. I love hip hop, but structurally & instrumentally hip hop is easily one of the LEAST versatile genres in the world. If you wanna talk about "umbrella" genres, rock has had more diversification of its forms in the past 30-40 years by a landslide. i.e. prog rock, fusion, hardcore, thrash, grind, and so on. Jazz is arguably even more diverse. Flamenco too.
Hip hop traditionally follows a pop song structure (always in 4/4 time, always 8-16 bar verses sometimes without even a hook to mix things up. You may think it SOUNDS versatile because it can use samples from virtually anything, but they're all being used in the same way. The rhythms of the songs barely change in the grand scheme of music's potential.
Historically, the lack of versatility has been one of the biggest criticisms of rap from traditionalists & theorists.
Hip-hop is still for the children, don't get me wrong.