Don't buy counterfeit keycaps at all. Support community designers and vendors.

What kind of plastic material is used for those keycaps?

I'm pretty sure it's ABS

I learnt ABS also have different version, one that does not break easily. But I forgot which one.

This debate has been done to death, and people will continue to do what they want.

Edit: Even if you're right, you're just opening a can of worms that has been opened many times before. You're not likely to change many minds, especially those of people on a budget.

Despite enjoying the hobby not everyone can spend ~100$ on a set of keycaps lol

And then you get quality like that lol

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stem are too stronk

Yeah, the kind that GMK uses lol. I'll stick to PBT for cheap keycaps from now on.

That said I'm thinking of replacing the set with DROP DCX keycaps which are also high quality ABS.

Agreed?

Edit: I post a comment consisting of 2 objectively correct statements: -9 votes. Someone replies to my comment, saying the exact same thing: +9 votes.

Sometimes I just don't understand reddit.

caps are too weak

This guy typing force is measured in kilos not gs

i think that dinosaur ate them

I have a GMK set and a Drop BOW set and the Drop are almost identical. Legends are slightly thinner but actually sharper and plastic feels a little lighter

Ah, of course.

One of them is the f8 key which I never even use. It just randomly fell in half.

You are 3/4 elephant

gmk exists for a reason. buying clones always has this risk.

Do you have old Kailh BOX switches, by any chance? The first batch had the stem too big.

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Just to clarify the confusion. You are wrong.

The “debate” is people making excuses for trashy behavior that DIRECTLY effects the people of this community in a negative way. If you want to steal from corporate store, at least you have an argument but you are supporting theft from your fellow member of this community. So no, screw you and go away. You support theft from this community and worse off you try to explain it away and encourage it for others.

Please go away.

My comment never stated an option either way. In fact the post itself is anti-clone if anything. And before you crucify me for buying the clones I bought them a while ago before I even heard of GMK.

I'm just tired of hearing the same angry argument over and over and over again.

Got asked this on the last post I made, nope. Zealio V2s.

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When someone says to support the community and you say people will do what they want. That is dismissive at best and potentially emboldening. New people need to know. We should not be ok with people “doing what they want.” The support for clones these days is insane and they main reason I am not as engaged in the hobby anymore. Extremely discouraging to see people actively doing something they know hurts the community.

To be fair to you, it sounds like you have come around and don’t purchase clones anymore so I respect that. You are correct that this conversation does need to be over and it needs to be a strong rebuke against anyone that supports clones. We do NOT want them in this community.

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I think I'm just more skeptical than you are that minds can be changed. But you're probably right about new people in the hobby being open to new information.

Unfortunately you are probably correct. Hence why I am not nearly as engaged in this hobby as I used to be. I do think the cheaper sets that vendors are coming out with should help a lot because I really want people to be able to get the sets they want but we can’t pretend like it doesn’t have an impact. Good on you for making the change though.

I'd never buy clones during an open GB or advertise or promote them.

I have to admit to purchasing some in the past few months, purely because it's next to impossible to find good caps with korean legends and GB wasn't an option since I wanted to make a build for someone in time for Christmas. I didn't feel good about it though.

I'm not likely to go for clones in the future, especially not for myself.

Yeah and I think that is the big key. They shouldn't be promoted or discussed. Like I have seen people buy a clone set while they wait for their GMK set and I can respect that. Kind of like ripping a CD you own lol.

Hell nah. That's not the way. If you care so much about the community go contribute on some open source project such as the crkbd, lily58, etc. Otherwise you're just an asshole blaming on people who just want to enjoy the same hobby as you but cannot afford to pay the same price.

" Hell nah. That's not the way."

Oh wait, you are right, stealing from members of this community is the way.

"If you care so much about the community go contribute on some open source project such as the crkbd, lily58, etc."

I have no interest in those projects, so no.

" Otherwise you're just an asshole blaming on people who just want to enjoy the same hobby as you but cannot afford to pay the same price. "

Projection much? You are the one doing an asshole thing, openly stealing from people in this community and encouraging it.

This hobby is not free. In fact, it is typically quite expensive. These are niche products that are run in very small batches only supported by the community. I can tell you are quite new to the hobby so instead of complaining that everything is so expensive and supporting people that steal from people in the hobby, be happy that people in this hobby are trying to bring low cost options that are available for everyone. You think there was a QK65 when I started this hobby? No. It was a Tofu that cost $300+ dollars that was a pretty weak tray mount. To be clear, I am happy that people have options now and could care less if everyone owned every keeb and keycap set I owned because who cares I like them. But sure, don't support the people of this community, instead buy from the Chinese manufacture that stole their IP, offers you are subpar product and then disincentives vendors that are trying to support the community the right way. In case you didn't know, the Olivia set on that board is licensed because Olivia didn't like that her keycap sets were being flipped for so much on the aftermarket. But yeah, go ahead and spit in her face and all of the designers of this hobby.

Actual Zealios V2? (Not sure it makes a difference but worth checking)

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand what you mean, and I think you're right with the fact that we should support people in the community. However not everyone is able to spend that much on a set, and blaming on people who buy clones cuz they cannot afford anything better is quite a nasty behaviour.

Well it sounds like we at least sort of agree. I get that we want everyone to have the opportunity but custom keyboards are much more akin to art pieces than just a functioning electronic piece of equipment.

Don't tell my girl, but they aren't really necessary but instead a luxury item.

So let's continue to support vendors like QwertyKeys who are making options available for everyone and support the people of this community and if you are that strapped and have to buy clones, just keep it to yourself and don't promote it. At least then it is really just about something you want for yourself and aren't showing it off and encouraging others to do the same.

Yeah, you're right. Better not to promote clones to avoid damaging community members, however no hate for those who use them.

Yeah it is a tough one for sure. This hobby was created so that people could have a keyboard that they love. The problem is that for it to continue we have to support our designers and not just always go the low cost option, particularly when it is just a direct knock off.

It is worth noting that if a clone set doesn't use the novelties, I am much more inclined to be ok with that. Clearly they are taking the colors of a different designer and matching them to appear to be the same set which is obvious by the fact that, outside of their inability to produce the same saturated color, they don't even switch up the hue or anything about the color profile. However, BoW, WoB, beige, etc. sets are all completely fair game.

Are you pulling these off with a proper keycap puller like the metal wire one? All of these look like you're pulling them off at an angle. Like how are all the caps broken on one side only if even force is applied while pulling them off? Just curious.

Yeah, the real deal. Cost more than 3x the keycaps lol.

I know they are still more xpensive than clones but cannoncaps, dcx, pbtfans, ifk, kam, kat and many more have amazing instock options. Gmk clones in long run ruins the market making everything so much worse

Yeah, normal keycap puller. Maybe I could have been more gentle I suppose, but everything points to it being an issue with the keycaps. Two broke during keypress, one during keycap removal, and one just happened to be broken when I next looked at the board.

It's not odd imo that they're broken on one side. Objects break at their weakest point first, that's just physics.

Honestly I'd love this to be my fault so that I can guarantee it never happens again, but it's hard to scientifically test how much difference it would make to more carefully add and remove keycaps when 94% are fine regardless and they feel and sound like the cheapest softest ABS there is.

Preaching to the choir here. Forked out quite a bit for pmk keycaps after this experience. I've learned my lesson about quality.

I understand what you're saying, very interesting how these break on keypresses.

Yeah, obviously I'm gonna be extra careful with caps in future just in case, but I suspect it's a QC issue.

for sure, read all your comments. just wanted to put it out there for people that might be tempted into buying clones and give like a list of keycaps that are in-stock and good quality

Ah yeah, good call

Pbtfans is also amazing for the price and in stock typically

I have like every single doubleshot clone set and I've never had this problem. Knock on wood. I take them off and put them on so many times to.

Yea I've never had this problem and I have 20+ sets of doubleshot clones

They are pbt outer and abs inner . There actually nice imo

It's measured in Gs, just not the right ones.

>This debate has been done to death

I don't care. Support the community and its members who design all the cool stuff you like.... or lose it. Your choice. If you can't afford GMK, then buy something else. There are loads of reasonably priced, nice keycaps that are not counterfeits, why not buy those?

Ah fuck, here we go again.

Just a tip, there's better things to do with GMK vs. clones with someone bringing counterfeit issue. It will get nowhere and will inevitably go down the path of insults.

You get what you paid for. It is what it is. At very least (while not ideal), vendors may offer some sort of warranty if you buy the keycaps from the GMK. Plus, there's other keycap manufacturers that might not break the bank.

You do know that the debate will never end and will get worse.

I'll do you one more just to sizzle the shit pan! Get in to the group buy to resell them at a premium to actually get the in-stock. Let the suckers pay for your extras!

Who the fuck are you make someone else go away?

Get the fuck out with that holier than thou bullshit.

... sorry, never mind me. Don't change, because the popcorn won't pop itself without some heat. And that heatmap on MonkeyType might be saying something about keyboard warriors being keyboard warriors. :)

So, I think the debate has been raging on, I've my fill with the clusterfuck of "buying clones is evil."

But in any case, not sorry for being callous, it is what it is. On the other hand, there had been other keycaps that are not double shot but seemed to be thick plastic on the stems. For example, Shenpo and Xiami.

Still, they are mostly beige colored. Or... if you have Kailh Box or (AFAIK) Cherry MX Clears with extremely tight fit, that can happen.

lets not simply blame 'cheap' keycaps, ive had a couple, well 3 cap stems fracture on my GMK bento set using BobaU4t and another time b4 with glorious pandas. go figure it was caps like lctrl, right win and backspace (this one i get) in comparison my cheap sets have had 0 issues with these switches.

Looks like the lesson is be extra gentle with mechanical keyboards or else go for PBT.