ryoushure t1_iy8pmpf wrote
This thread and comments are absolutely wild.
Turns out a couple years of getting blasted by propaganda leads to a LOT of cognitive dissonance, who knew?
The main narrative being flipped right now with everyone piling on support for the Chinese COVID protestors must be absolutely surreal to some of y'all.
Mask this, mask that. Truth is, we have data from different places over the past couple years, and these different places took vastly different approaches to how they handle public health mandates and whatnot. Pretty much everywhere is trending towards less forceful measures because guess what, the collateral effects of draconian "health" policy like lockdowns, forcibly masking, forcibly medicating, etc, are overall more detrimental than the benefits they provide. Read that again if you have to. The collateral damage from draconian pandemic response is more damaging to our society than a coronavirus.
So while China does the thing all those darned conspiracy theorists said was going to happen, and the mainstream narrative tries to get you to quickly forget that they pushed that Australia and others were being proactive by building involuntary quarantine camps just a short while ago, maybe this is the opportunity to break cycle of sunken cost fallacy and re evaluate some things.
Remember how masking stopped the flu in it's tracks last year? Flu is coming back now because we arent masking, is that right? So why is it that the flu is also making a resurgence this year in Japan as they continue to diligently mask as is their cultural custom?
joeydokes OP t1_iy8x8zf wrote
I appreciate your inputs, but you're assertion says that masks not only are not effective but they're also detrimental. You're going to have to back that up with some stats - links please
ryoushure t1_iy92nun wrote
Masks are detrimental to children learning to speak and understand languages.
Masks are detrminental to unspoken communications and connections that are inherent to social human life and interaction. Don't underestimate the subtle yet important impact the occasional unexpected smile shared between two strangers has. It's hard coded into us.
Masks are detrimental to societal cohesion due to the volatile political dogmas associated with the desire to force others to conform.
Incoherent conditional masking requirements leads to things like service industry workers subconsciously becoming faceless service providers to customers instead of valid individuals working a service based job.
All but the most diligent mask wearers subject themselves to increased risk of exposure to whatever they may touch by constantly fidgeting or adjusting their masks with dirty hands.
Immune systems don't work outside of your body. The damp warm environment of the inside of a mask does not have its own immune system. Prolonged use results in your air filtering through a petri dish on both inhale and exhale.
An airborne virus like Sars Cov2 will not be restricted or effectively filtered by loose fabric weave or surgical paper mask materials. Go outside in the sun some cold morning and exhale. See that vapor? It's always there in your breath, you just can't always see the vapor condensing midair due to the cold. But guess what, that moist vapor that's always there is what airborne virus transmit by. Go exhale in the sun through your cloth mask and see how well it stops the airborne virus. Sure you catch some of the moisture on the inside of the mask. Something something filter urine through a cheesecloth and its probably safe to drink right? No. You are left with a contaminated cheese cloth and a puddle of piss.
The amount of pollution generated by the massive amounts of disposable masks made over the last couple years far surpasses the amount of pollution you prevented by sucking on cardboard straws.
Taking a brief step away from masks for a moment, let us consider that pandemic response actions led to record increases in homicide rates, suicide rates, homelessness, mental health crisis, widespread deferred preventative and/or elective healthcare, severe distrust of various institutions, an erosion of individual liberties, an overall regression of morality and ethics, and a large uptick in overall non-covid all-cause mortality.
joeydokes OP t1_iyakwex wrote
1st - I get your assertion WRT masks and kids in classrooms, exposure (to teachers, staff, ...) notwithstanding
2nd - I agree that unless you're wearing a [K]N95 mask exposure to nuclei from evaporated envelopes will get to your mouth/nose. N95's are what keeps virii from being inhaled.
But even a simple surge mask will stop the envelopes from spewing if you yourself happen to have virii/germs. So, they do serve a purpose of keeping others safe(r) around you should you be infectious.
If you are trying to assert that masks serve no purpose, or are even counter-productive to fighting virus, I think you're full-on wrong.
Masks are a component,along with >= 6' distance and good ventilation, to keeping the social safety net intact.
If you're looking for a return to 'normal' - well good luck with that. Years ahead are going to make 2020-2022 look downright appealing. Normal jumped the shark and headed south.
Additionally, even you are ready to sacrifice old and immuno-compromised people on the alter of "adapting to it", unless you can provide a verifiable link to the contrary, long-covid (and repeated exposure to SRV) and the associated effects are reasons to avoid getting these sicknesses.
ryoushure t1_iyavq8x wrote
>But even a simple surge mask will stop the envelopes from spewing if you yourself happen to have virii/germs. So, they do serve a purpose of keeping others safe(r) around you should you be infectious.
This is like going swimming with jeans on and pissing in the pool, and expecting that you are doing everyone a favor by wearing jeans because you think you are getting less piss on the people swimming around you while you also yell incoherently about the guy pissing into the pool from the diving board.
Truth is, in this analogy, everyone has been swimming through other people's piss for eons. Its literally why we evolved sophisticated immune systems. Good news though, we now have the technology for you to opt out. Grab your submarine, wear your N95 mask for durations and applications that even OSHA would have been uncomfortable with 5 years ago, and take advantage of your individual liberty to protect and manage your own health.
Don't insist that everyone else conform to your faux consensus manifested by the largest propaganda blitz we have ever witnessed/experienced.
>If you're looking for a return to 'normal' - well good luck with that. Years ahead are going to make 2020-2022 look downright appealing. Normal jumped the shark and headed south.
Are we still talking about the prolonged negative affects of irrational and detrimental pandemic response aspects like masking? Because it feels like you are about to tell me how I can't use my own electricity that I pay for because climate crisis or something.
Or is this more along the lines of Bill Gates saying "I call this Pandemic #1, wait til you see what I call Pandemic #2" except without the accompanying solicitation of products/services/philanthropic quasi-celebrity persona?
joeydokes OP t1_iyazort wrote
> Don't insist that everyone else conform to your faux consensus manifested by the largest propaganda blitz we have ever witnessed/experienced.
I appreciate long and thoughtful replies, even though I may not agree with them. But you are basically saying "free the germs, don't bother with vaccinations" because of detrimental effects of dealing with it, because its fruitless to try, and doing so makes you a pawn of big gov propaganda. And, mostly, because you don't like anyone telling you what you should or need to do. Maybe you should try NH, or AZ, or ID for more sympathetic audiences.
You've beefed up all your talking points to reinforce why you're right and I'm wrong; why anyone recommending social protections are wrong.
Not the "the prolonged negative affects of irrational and detrimental pandemic 'response'" so much as the prolonged negative effects that people like you, disinclined to vax or mask just because 'beliefs', are exacting on the community writ large.
There's nothing irrational about protection though it does have its downsides. I'm no fan of big pharma, or the government FTM, still, sometimes you bite the bullet and do what's right. The CV19 vax is not immunity (yet) but mitigation, RSV has no vax, Mpox is here as are a host of other germs easily spread in our globalized planet.
But no, you pat yourself on the back for being a 'free thinker' while 2 minutes perusing your post history, and all the negative points all your replies generate, illustrate how off the mark you are trolling for nobody's benefit but your own.
ryoushure t1_iyb5qqq wrote
>I appreciate long and thoughtful replies, even though I may not agree with them. But you are basically saying "free the germs, don't bother with vaccinations" because of detrimental effects of dealing with it, because its fruitless to try, and doing so makes you a pawn of big gov propaganda. And, mostly, because you don't like anyone telling you what you should or need to do. Maybe you should try NH, or AZ, or ID for more sympathetic audiences.
Nice try putting words in my mouth. See look I can do it too. You are basically saying "if you don't wear a mask I think you are a second grade citizen that deserves every bit of contempt and I will take joy in mocking your death." See not very nice is it? Don't conflate being confronted with inconvenient detrimental effects of masking/pandemic response with calling for sneezing into people's faces.
But look at you, going and telling other people where they should live to be more like their kind. Ain't that cunnin. Won't you pretty please allow me to live here sir?
>You've beefed up all your talking points to reinforce why you're right and I'm wrong; why anyone recommending social protections are wrong.
Is this your way of saying you have trouble debating the points I made but your propensity to haughtiness precludes your willingness to try or be persuaded?
>Not the "the prolonged negative affects of irrational and detrimental pandemic 'response'" so much as the prolonged negative effects that people like you, disinclined to vax or mask just because 'beliefs', are exacting on the community writ large
Who is exacting what exactly? Is this a "this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated" quip? In December 2022? Are you sure?
>There's nothing irrational about protection though it does have its downsides. I'm no fan of big pharma, or the government FTM, still, sometimes you bite the bullet and do what's right. The CV19 vax is not immunity (yet) but mitigation, RSV has no vax, Mpox is here as are a host of other germs easily spread in our globalized planet.
There is nothing irrational with taking proactive measures for your individual health and/or expressing your ideas/opinions on best measures. That is not an invitation for coercion or bypassing informed consent. That is not a justification to exile anyone from society that does not conform to your specific ideologically motivated proactive measure regiment, no matter how much you believe your views are consensus. You make a great argument against globalisation though I guess.
>But no, you pat yourself on the back for being a 'free thinker' while 2 minutes perusing your post history, and all the negative points all your replies generate, illustrate how off the mark you are trolling for nobody's benefit but your own.
Lol
joeydokes OP t1_iybuald wrote
Don't bother responding, or take the last word if you do, regardless
I don't know where you were during 2020 but I'd bet it was not as a 1st responder, or care-giver or even a F'in prison hack.
2020, pre-vax, was a culling; try to deny it. And even after the vax, it continued; due to folks who didn't see the need to comply w/basic social standards. And to a lesser extent it continues still. All because "muh freedoms" standing atop cardboard boxes filled with quasi-facts.
There are always exceptions based on medical limits. But if its just on principle and one don't want the vax? Fine, don't seek help if you get infected. Don't want to wear a mask indoors when bugs are on the rise? Fine, stay 6' away TF from me; I'll buy you a beer and we can beef on.
Yea, not happy to say it, but your prevailing 'tude is the same as the 2020 version. It got people sick then and can still get people sick now. Their ability to survive notwithstanding.
Yes, I'm antiglobalist; all its done is give the filthy rich more reach to feast off the bone of the poors, somewhere.
AFAIC, CV19 was released with intention; the designs of some folk(s) who want to see a few billion less people walking our planet; and profit off their pains.
It doesn't matter what i feel or think. My words speak for other simple people. Who don't really give AF about the current corrupt system or the show-runners in charge. As it is about keeping myself, those I care about, out of the ER and in decent enough health when 1 bad bill could bankrupt them.
Please stay healthy and uninfected. My well-being may depend on it. If actions, or lack of them, expose risk to those (strangers) w/out their informed consent cuz one's shedding while standing in the checkout line and too close, for instance, then yea, Houston's got a problem.
joeydokes OP t1_iyan8s5 wrote
> the collateral effects of draconian "health" policy like lockdowns, forcibly masking, forcibly medicating, etc, are overall more detrimental than the benefits they provide. Read that again if you have to. The collateral damage from draconian pandemic response is more damaging to our society than a coronavirus.
Well, says you; thankfully we'll never know, considering a vaccine was produced and (most) people followed guidelines. Still, over 1mil USA'ians died and millions more impacted.
What CH and AU are doing may be overboard, I can't say cuz I don't live there. But frankly I think you don't know shit and only cite words that match your belief system.
Good luck, pard. Hope you don't make r/hermancaineaward or become a zombie dying on the hill of "sunk costs"
ryoushure t1_iyaxmy8 wrote
It doesn't surprise me that you are familiar with that subreddit I guess. It's a pretty dark place, having that much hate and haughtiness to be able to find joy in the deridement of others people's deaths.
It's that same attitude and sentiments that has propelled the prevalence of coercion, exploitation, and manipulation of individuals into forfeiting their own right to medical autonomy else have the quasi-consensus society exile them.
Sounds like a lot of words right? Here is a simpler way to put it. When the haughtiness that is widely exhibited in that subreddit is applied to real life, to the point that even The White House is promoting apartheid-like conditional access to society, we call that - Crimes Against Humanity.
joeydokes OP t1_iyb1y3i wrote
r/hermancaineaward is no diff from other subs; there's always a fair share of a-holes who like to gloat. Most though see it as lamentable were it not for individual intransigence. Not unlike r/leopardsatemyface
Few are taking joy in the suffering of others in ways that you suggest, but being you, that's the first place you look to demean it.
> coercion, exploitation, and manipulation of individuals into forfeiting their own right to medical autonomy else have the quasi-consensus society exile them.
On one level, you are not wrong; on another you appear to want to forgo the price being in said society requires, while reaping said benefits. Like a fascist on their soapbox exercising 1A only because the rest of us tolerate it .
> The White House is promoting apartheid-like conditional access to society, we call that - Crimes Against Humanity.
I loathe Biden, and Dems in general, but that sentence? Wow! Sure you don't mean Netanyahu and Israel?
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