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meowmix778 t1_iscqm43 wrote

It's pretty spooky how much we've over fished the entire planet and devastated ecosystems. We need to stop it so my daughter has a place to live. In that same breath a lot of people place their entire livelihood into these industries. So government intervention is badly needed. Be it a short term payment to the fishermen or offering them free or discounted training for trades/college.

I'll liken this to the industrial revolution. At one point in our nation's history most of our people preformed agrarian work and then in short order it moved to like 10% or less because of factories. We need to take care of the people producing food but we need to help prepare them for if/when the industries dry up forever.

This isn't new. It's been a long time coming.

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combatbydesign OP t1_iscr2ki wrote

If you read the article there are no claims of overfishing.

It's a question of where the crabs went, and what happened.

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meowmix778 t1_isdawso wrote

Oh. I read the article. I'm just speaking in more broad terms. It's something that generally concerns me that fish are beginning to disappear and that directly threatens people's livelihoods. Maybe we as a society should do something before then.

Same goes for all of nature really.

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AllYrLivesBelongToUS t1_isem80s wrote

I'd wager much of the "where they went" can be attributed to the Chinese fishing fleet. Imagine you're a whale or fish swimming about in International waters. Then an armada of 300+ fishing vessels park above and take tonnes of things that swim or crawl around you. When they leave, some species will do well because the things that eat them are sparse, while other species suffer because the things they feed on are few.

​ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9t5MC7WXNg

>China harvests 20% of the world's entire annual catch (15.2 million tonnes). China reports it's distant ocean fishing vessels numbers 2500 but the real estimate is 17,000. In comparison the US has around 300 vessels.

2020 video/data. Chances are that the Chinese fleet has grown since then.

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GlockAF t1_isczcxh wrote

There are no claims of overfishing by the US crab fleet, but on the Russian side it is a very different story

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determania t1_isczosk wrote

The problem in Maine is, what jobs would they train for?

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MrLeeman123 t1_isd4vf7 wrote

This is a great question and should be something our state is focused on! There is a lot of talk around utilizing the current public power movement to partner with UMO and create a new backbone of industry off a diversified energy grid. The developmental capacity needed could supply a huge number of jobs for years to come, especially if models such as the Non-Transmission Alternative in Boothbay Harbor are mimicked. By encouraging this kind of development and fostering a new, mid-income industry, these families who currently make very good money for themselves fishing would see incentives to switch to a safer and more sustainable career.

However, it shouldn’t be ignored that fishing is dying in Maine, whether we like to admit it or not. This is going to continue whether or not stocks decline. The value in our coast has been determined to be in single family housing and retirement communities. If fishing families can’t live in the municipalities they fish out of, let alone within 20 miles of one, they will of course start to look for other options. This has been part of it along with the growth of tourism, our rapidly aging population, etc. We can’t expect our current industries to absorb the impact of lobstermen vanishing though. If we leave it up to natural forces the same thing that happened to the mill workers will happen to lobstermen across our coast. I highly recommend everyone to look up the 10 year plan developed in 2020 that highlights parts of what I pointed out here. Maine is approaching a crossroad that poses major shifts in our society brought on by climate change, it’s up to us now to prepare to take the right path.

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meowmix778 t1_isdajjy wrote

I mean we have the capability for most other industries from hostility, medical, insurance, trades, automotive, etc. Just the same as other states. The issue is we just have a state that focuses on hospitality and retail.

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ADuhSude t1_isdsbss wrote

We absolutely do not have the ability to grow the medical industry in Maine lol.

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meowmix778 t1_isf03pb wrote

One company seems fine at growing a monopoly if nothing else.

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determania t1_isdar3q wrote

I feel like this is a really naive comment. Like we can just snap our fingers and reshape our economy.

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meowmix778 t1_isdd80p wrote

I'm not really suggested hand out magic ✨️ wands and we all get new jobs and fiber internet and whatever else. I'm saying if we invest in our future eventually it'll be a better place.

Above I point out we should invest in jobs for the fishermen. If you put money/time/incentives into programs it'll become a net positive. If you ignore it eventually the bottom falls out.

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determania t1_isddoro wrote

How do we invest in jobs for them? Lobster is a resource that brings in tons of money from outside Maine. Replacing that isn’t as simple as offering job training.

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meowmix778 t1_isf0fke wrote

I mean I'll be frank. If I had the silver bullet I'd on commercials every 17 seconds hoping you voted for me, not on reddit.

But it really comes from a place of gradual change and replacement. Just like those farmers in the 1800s couldn't imagine working on factories we likely can't imagine the "next big thing".

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determania t1_isf117m wrote

> So government intervention is badly needed. Be it a short term payment to the fishermen or offering them free or discounted training for trades/

So then you would agree this is an oversimplification of the issue, right? I feel like you have shifted your argument a bit since that original comment.

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meowmix778 t1_isfmgsf wrote

Not at all. I'm still arguing the same point. For those in the back

Commercial fishing is not sustainable for the long term. Our economy is reliant on it. Our elected officials need to make policies to help people other than "bad fishermen, stop". In that same breath, we need drastic and immediate action to preserve our planet.

You put me in a room with 192 people or something and say "train them to do different jobs". I could probably get you there, my background is in market research/training and HR. But you get me 10,000 people I'd need help. That's reasonable for like... anyone ? Thats why we hire the government. To solve those bigger picture issues. To research and resolve the issues. To go "eeehh well I don't see good quality engineering jobs... might as well fish to extinction" is just silly

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determania t1_isfn2c2 wrote

Well, you definitely are not arguing the same point, and you seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying as well. I am not saying to do nothing. I’m saying that your empty platitudes like job training are meaningless when there are no jobs to train for.

Edit: You also might want to revisit what the issue is here. It’s climate change and not overfishing.

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meowmix778 t1_isfoqwy wrote

It's cause and effect. If you do nothing then nothing changes. If you invest into an economy then it changes. One of the best ways to do so is re skilling people. Jobs follow talented work forces. It's not this over night change.

And climate change is directly tied to overfishing. Or more broadly the over consumption of resources. We didn't cause climate change by consuming too little.

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determania t1_isfpfgm wrote

> Jobs follow talented work forces.

I think you got that one backwards

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OniExpress t1_isd0h2r wrote

Carpentry? Graphic Design? Land-based Aquaculture? How about a writer, or a journalist? If you want to stay in agricultural we've got blueberries, potatoes, maple syrup, hay, chickens, etc.

There is literally an entire planet of possible careers other than Fisherman.

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determania t1_isd7ilc wrote

Obviously other careers exist. There just aren’t a lot in Maine. My point is that we need more than training for better careers, we need for better careers to exist here.

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redcoat777 t1_isdaq7m wrote

Why just land based? shellfish and seaweed farming should be able to withstand then pressures of climate change somewhat robustly.

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OniExpress t1_isdkivn wrote

Shellfish is kinda the whole issue here, but yeah, there are more sustainable options there too.

The point is that there are way more job options than "scrape away at natural resources. "

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redcoat777 t1_isegu2c wrote

My intention was to suggest bivalve shellfish, oysters, mussels, and scallops for example. With a farm you have many more levers to pull to mitigate the impacts of the warming.

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joeydokes t1_isfgd14 wrote

There's already a big scalloping industry. The DownEast institute on Bealls island is researching clams and mollusks, but nobody really likes clamming because wading in the muck sucks; even winkling is more attractive :)

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K8nK9s t1_ise5vm2 wrote

It would be nice if that were true.

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joeydokes t1_isffn94 wrote

Most of the kids in these small fishing communities only graduated high school by the skin of their teeth. Their future is in the trades, but there wouldn't be enough jobs to accommodate them.

My understanding is that it takes a minimum of 300 traps to break even; most working boats have 4 to 500 traps and are still in the red. The waiting list for a license (and 300 traps) is 8 years. So if you start your kid off at age 8 with a permit, by 16 years old they can become a working lobsterman.

A better education is the only way out, while most natives to the area are functionally illiterate.

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gulfofmainah t1_isga58f wrote

I’m a full time lobsterman with a college education half the fisherman I know have some college or a full degree, you’re making broad blanket statements here. I know plenty of carpenters, caretakers and workers in other Maine industries who are drop outs so what’s your point?

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joeydokes t1_isk3b3b wrote

You're correct that I'm over-generalizing and my apologies. My impression, spending far too many hours in harbors talking with lobstermen left me with a different impression. Yes, many are educated and well-spoke; but many/most stated they weren't cut out for classrooms and barely eeked out H.S.

I'm not saying anyone needs college , I was saying that the trades you mentioned are perfectly fine; my point being that I didn't think any given area could handle that many tradesmen w/out other economic improvements just to be able to hire them and keep them in their trade.

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