Submitted by Appropriate_Toe_2770 t3_ydexuc in Maine
Sleuthiestofsleuths t1_itrwfai wrote
This is correct. The collection agency can't provide itemized charges because they are not legally allowed to possess that information, due to hipaa. Soooo, you can challenge this debt with the credit agencies and the collection agency must remove it because they cannot prove you owe it. Write a letter to the big 3 credit agencies (I would send email + hard copy). You can find simple templates for this online. It's the rare loophole which actually works for the common man. Good luck!!
Laeek t1_itryi7m wrote
>Soooo, you can challenge this debt with the credit agencies and the collection agency must remove it because they cannot prove you owe it
One simple trick to never have to pay medical bills! (Debt collectors hate this)
Appropriate_Toe_2770 OP t1_itst4lg wrote
I am not going to lie that sounds like one of the smartest processes I have ever heard. One issue - would you actually risk letting (let’s just say) a $2,500 bill report? You don’t think they’ll have any tactics for that?
Because logically that actually sounds incredibly slick. As people have mentioned though, if they own they debt how couldn’t they prove I owe it?
Sleuthiestofsleuths t1_itsveu3 wrote
Yes, the collection agency owns the debt. They buy it for pennies on the dollar and the hospital writes it off. So, no money that you pay will go to the hospital (this is different if it's a law firm collecting FOR the hospital.) If it's a collection agency, the hospital has written it off. If this collection agency can't collect, they'll sell it to another agency for even less than they paid. The MO of these agencies is to bully, threaten, and intimidate you into paying. Because of HIPAA they can't prove you owe it, but most people don't know that. And to answer your question about the $2,500 bill.....yes, I would and yes, I did. I have insurance and it was one of those things that I didn't even know wasn't paid until I got the nasty letter. I tried to pay the hospital but they wouldn't take it because it had been written off and turned over to collections. Therefore, I did not pay collections and I told them exactly what I told you. I know several people who have also dealt with this and, of those who were reported, every single one got it removed. This is one small corner of our very messed up healthcare system. We need to advocate for ourselves.
Appropriate_Toe_2770 OP t1_itswwnj wrote
This is why I came here for this. You have an excellent way of thinking.
Should I specifically email the hospital to confirm it is written off? I do know in some instances a health care system will pay a cost to collect - right? Like they give up with a guarantor after a year (still want the revenue) but basically pay a collection agency to then call for the money everyday?
Sleuthiestofsleuths t1_itsz80e wrote
I just did a little research and apparently, out of every 1,000 unpaid medical bills, a hospital will sue for an average of 1.73 of them. Fewer than 2 people per 1,000!! And they're not going to do it for a measly $2,500. You can confirm it's been written off, if you like. But just know that the hospital will verrrry likely never sue you and will not report to credit agencies. A collection agency cannot legally collect the debt if you challenge them, because they cannot prove it. If they should happen to report you, you can have it removed by challenging them with the credit agencies. Also, in case you didn't know - if you tell a collection agency to stop contacting you, they have to. As part of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, passed in 2021, you can send a letter to the collector telling them never to contact you again. Keep a copy of the letter. If they continue to contact you, you can sue them. You definitely have rights, so please use them!!
wessex464 t1_itszm15 wrote
Sleuth is straight up not correct. Think about this for a second, do you really think there is some magical get out of medical debt free loophole? Of course not, that's absurd. Regardless of the experience he/she has had or a few friends have had, this isn't actually a thing. You may get lucky and the debt collector may not have the proper paperwork for the debt or you may irritate them enough that they stop bothering you, but they absolutely can and do verify these debts every day. It's worth a shot to ask(in writing) to verify it, but don't expect some magic "gotcha" to happen.
Appropriate_Toe_2770 OP t1_itt59zc wrote
No but I do believe there is enough people willing to pay after getting called every single damn day, to keep an industry alive. I really do. While if you fight it long enough it’ll work in your favor.
Like sleuth said we need to advocate for ourselves in this “very messed up healthcare.”
wessex464 t1_itt0142 wrote
That's not true at all. I don't know where you got that story, but its entirely not accurate. The hospital can easily verify that you were seen and what the bill is and it happens every day. You may have gotten lucky with an incompetent debt collector, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same result.
Edit: Here's HHS saying the same thing:
Sleuthiestofsleuths t1_itt0q1e wrote
Yes, of course the hospital can. But the hospital cannot share that information with any collection agency. Therefore, if the debt is challenged after it's been sold to collections, the agency cannot prove it's owed because they cannot tell you what it's for. Facts.
wessex464 t1_itt147y wrote
Check my edit. HHS literally says that's not accurate. When you tell the debt collector to go verify it they can be provided with the minimally necessary information to validate the debt.
You got lucky with an incompetent debt collector, stop giving out garbage advice.
Appropriate_Toe_2770 OP t1_itt8ppa wrote
Please don’t take this as me arguing just curious here. Minimum necessary requirements…. Ok… like? Encounter date? A revenue code to me sounds like it’s privacy.
Also how could we also confirm this is specific to guarantor billing
wessex464 t1_itt9ggj wrote
You are providing some amount of consent when you ask them to go verify. You are telling them to minimally verify that the bill belongs to you, that's what asking them to validate the debt means and hospitals are explicitly allowed to share this information just like they do with your employer for workers comp issues, insurance agencies for payment, etc etc etc.
Health privacy is not some magic button that shuts everything off. The hospital isn't going to say they saw you for jock itch and nurse Esmeralda dingled your berries, but they absolutely can share that they saw you for a specialty exam, billing code 123, on date 12/12/12, they verified it was you, billed your insurance and that their records show you never paid the remaining balance. That's a verified debt for the purposes of proving that you owe money.
Appropriate_Toe_2770 OP t1_itt9wxt wrote
I think the designated record set sums up everything you said. Thanks for providing that link.
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