ItsJustMeJerk t1_j6uqkv6 wrote on February 2, 2023 at 12:45 AM

Reply to comment by Nhabls in [R] Extracting Training Data from Diffusion Models by pm_me_your_pay_slips

Actually, data has shown after a certain size larger models end up generalizing more than smaller ones. It's called double descent.

Nhabls t1_j6urk1b wrote on February 2, 2023 at 12:52 AM

This isn't really relevant. Newer, larger LLMs generalize better than smaller ones yet they also regurgitate training data better. it's not exclusive

ItsJustMeJerk t1_j6uymag wrote on February 2, 2023 at 1:44 AM

You're right, it's not exclusive. But I believe that while the the absolute amount of data memorized might go up with scale, it occupies a smaller fraction of the output because it's only used where verbatim recitation is necessary instead of as a crutch (I could be wrong though). Anyway, I don't think that crippling the model by removing all copyrighted data from the dataset is a good long-term solution. You don't keep students from plagiarizing by preventing them from looking at a source related to what they're writing.

DigThatData t1_j6uu82y wrote on February 2, 2023 at 1:11 AM

This is true, and also generalization and memorization are not mutually exclusive.

EDIT: I can't think of a better way to articulate this, but the image that keeps coming to my mind is a model memorizing the full training data and simulating a nearest neighbors estimate.

pm_me_your_pay_slips OP t1_j6wn43x wrote on February 2, 2023 at 12:30 PM

That models that memorize better generalize better has been observed in large language models:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.07646.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2205.10770.pdf

An interesting way to quantify memorization is proposed here, although it will be expensive for a model like SD: https://proceedings.neurips.cc/paper/2021/file/eae15aabaa768ae4a5993a8a4f4fa6e4-Paper.pdf.

Basically: you perform K-fold cross validation and measure how much more likely the image is when included in the training dataset vs when it is not included. For memorized images, the likelihood of the images when not used in the dataset drops to close to zero. Note that they caution against using the nearest neighbour distance to quantify memorization as it is not correlated with the described memorization score.

DigThatData t1_j6xexyf wrote on February 2, 2023 at 4:02 PM

> That models that memorize better generalize better has been observed in large language models

I think this is an incorrect reading here. increasing model capacity is a reliable strategy for increasing generalization (Kaplan et al 2020, Scaling Laws), and larger capacity models have a higher propensity to memorize (your citations). The correlations discussed in both of those links are to capacity specifically, not generalization ability broadly. scaling law research has recently been demonstrating that there is probably a lot of wasted capacity in certain architectures, which suggests that the generalization potential of those models could be achieved with a much lower potential for memorization. see for example Tirumala et al 2022, Chinchilla.

which is to say: you're not wrong that a lot of recently trained models that generalize well have also been observed to memorize. but I don't think it's accurate to suggest that the reason these models generalize well is linked to a propensity/ability to memorize. it's possible this is the case, but I don't think anything suggesting this has been demonstrated. it seems more likely that generalization and memorization are correlated through the confounder of capacity, and contemporary research is actively attacking the problem of excess capacity in part to address the memorization question specifically.

EDIT: Also... I have some mixed feelings about that last paper. It's new to me and I just woke up so I'll have to take another look after I've had some coffee, but although their approach feels intuitively sound from the direction of the LOO methodology, their probabilistic formulation of memorization I think is problematic. They formalize memorization using a definition that appears to me to be indistinguishable from an operational definition of generalizability. Not even OOD generalizability: perfectly reasonable in-distribution generalization to unseen data, according to these researchers, would have the same properties as memorization. That's... not helpful. Anyway, need to read this closer, but "lower posterior likelihood" to me seems fundamentally different from "memorized". Their approach appears to make no effort to distinguish between a model that had "memorized" a training datum and one that had "learned" meaningful features in the neighborhood of a datum that has high [leverage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leverage_(statistics). Are they detecting memorization or outlier samples? If the "outliers" are valid in distribution samples, removing them harms the diversity of the dataset and the model may have significantly less opportunity to learn features in the neighborhood of those observations (i.e. they are high leverage). My understanding is that the problem of memorization is generally more pathological in high density regions of the data, which would be undetectable by their approach.

pm_me_your_pay_slips OP t1_j6yl0wq wrote on February 2, 2023 at 8:24 PM

The first paper proposes a way of quantifying memorization by looking at pairs of prefixes and postfixes and observing whether the postfixes wer generated by the model when the prefixes were used as prompts.

The second paper has this to say about generalization:

> A natural question at this point is to ask why larger models memorize faster? Typically, memorization is associated with overfitting, which offers a potentially simple explanation. In order to disentangle memorization from overfitting, we examine memorization before overfitting occurs, where we define overfitting occurring as the first epoch when the perplexity of the language model on a validation set increases. Surprisingly, we see in Figure 4 that as we increase the number of parameters, memorization before overfitting generally increases, indicating that overfitting by itself cannot completely explain the properties of memorization dynamics as model scale increases.

In fact, this is the title of the paper: "Memorization without overfitting".

> Anyway, need to read this closer, but "lower posterior likelihood" to me seems fundamentally different from "memorized".

The memorization score is not "lower posterior likelihood", but the log density ratio for a sample: log( p(sample| dataset including sample)/p(sample| dataset excluding sample) ) . Thus, a high memorization score is given to samples that go from very unlikely when not included to as likely as the average sample when included in the training data, or from as likely as the average training sample when not included in the training data to above-average likelihood when included.

DigThatData t1_j6ynesq wrote on February 2, 2023 at 8:39 PM

> p(sample| dataset including sample)/p(sample| dataset excluding sample) )

which, like I said, is basically identical to statistical leverage. If you haven't seen it before, you can compute LOOCV for a regression model directly from the hat matrix (which is another name for the matrix of leverage values). This isn't a good definition for "memorization" because it's indistinguishable from how we define outliers.

> What's the definition of memorization here? how do we measure it?

I'd argue that what's at issue here is differentiating between memorization and learning. My concern regarding the density ratio here is that a model that had learned to generalize well in the neighborhood of the observation in question would behave the same way, so this definition of memorization doesn't differentiate between memorization and learning, which I think effectively renders it useless.

I don't love everything about the paper you linked in the OP, but I think they're on the right track by defining their "memorization" measure by probing the model's ability to regenerate presumably memorized data, especially since our main concern wrt memorization is in regards to the model reproducing memorized values.

pm_me_your_pay_slips OP t1_j6ypajq wrote on February 2, 2023 at 8:50 PM

>This isn't a good definition for "memorization" because it's indistinguishable from how we define outliers.

The paper has this to say about your point

> If highly memorized observations are always given a low probability when they are included in the training data, then it would be straightforward to dismiss them as outliers that the model recognizes as such. However, we find that this is not universally the case for highly memorized observations, and a sizable proportion of them are likely only when they are included in the training data.

> Figure 3a shows the number of highly memorized and “regular” observations for bins of the log probability under the VAE model for CelebA, as well as example observations from both groups for different bins. Moreover, Figure 3b shows the proportion of highly memorized observations in each of the bins of the log probability under the model. While the latter figure shows that observations with low probability are more likely to be memorized, the former shows that a considerable proportion of highly memorized observations are as likely as regular observations when they are included in the training set. Indeed, more than half the highly memorized observations fall within the central 90% of log probability values.

TLDR if this method was giving you a high score to outliers only, then these samples would have low likelihood when they were included in the training data (because they are outliers). But the authors observed sizeable proportion of the samples with high memorization score to be as likely as regular (inlier) data.