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Just remember, sometimes it will be YOU who was wrong, even though you were certain enough to argue your position. It happens to everyone... And if it doesn't ever happen to you, you're not taking enough risks. Believing in yourself is important - even though sometimes you will be wrong. Go do what you believe in. Take risks, get rewards. And defeats.

i agree

I do this before speaking

I believe that the moment the volume increases, and their face begins to redden, that's about the right time to stop arguing.

I'd say you're wrong...but this thread says I should just not.

😁

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With age I have learned this...

This is how we end up with a dying planet. Do I choose my father or the children I'll never have cause I wanted peace with my father?

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jeez dude

Am I wrong? I hope I am

I feel like I'm having to do this more and more these days. Or maybe I've just got nothing to say

u took it to the extreme lol

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thanks lol

Sometimes its better to just not engage at all. Waste of time and energy only for you to get stressed out. Lol Just say, “Ok” and go about your day.

That was capitalism

Lol they said "know when to stop," not "never argue with anyone" or "always immediately stop".

My point is I can't continue to let people be wrong about this, the actual future depends on it. There is no time to stop. This is like the first time in our species history where that is actually true. Our whole species is facing demise. Letting people be wrong and just going about my life isn't an option regarding the problems we're facing.

To add, if you're online, blocking someone doesn't mean you lost the argument. If someone isn't listening to you, it's fine to block them.

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Maybe instead of thinking of it as giving up, think of it as changing tactics. Direct confrontation didn't work, so try something else.

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It’s usually best to let stupid be stupid, you’ll never change their stupid minds

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That's not a LPT. That's the way people who are wrong think they've won. Fuck that.

You are totally right.

You're totally right!

Lol big brain right here ^

It's better to be at peace than to be right.

Vegans Unite! We know all too well.

I just tell them I am going to tell you twice then wait for you to catch up

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What do you suggest? Personally I've given up trying. Sometimes my passion for a continuing species slips out sure but I've given up on the idea that my father will be a part of the future

I truly hope I'm wrong. Imagine if climate change wasn't real? Holy shit that would be the greatest thing ever. Quite literally the greatest thing ever

Yeah but if you block them then you lose

In a social setting. Go to a different topic or different person to talk too

It’s called.. agree to disagree

I don't find it useful to argue/debate unless it's in front of an audience and the topic is important to me. I and my opponent are both human. I expect them to dig in their heels, just as I most likely will too. I go into it believing they will not be convinced ever. Instead, my goal is to get the audience to see my way of things. They don't have a stake in the argument, they're not having to worry about losing or winning, being right or wrong. Naturally, they can change their minds in silence and not "lose face" so to say. I consider myself to have won if I've convinced the observers, even if my opponent gets the last word.

How so? If a tree falls and no one is around to hear it fall, does it still make a sound? If there is no one to hear your argument, are you still arguing?

There are much better things you can do for the environment than trying to convince people who aren't going to change their mind.

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"I don't like being challenged, and when I'm wrong I go in the corner and pout"

When people start denying logic, reason, and reality in order to defend their claim or belief, then it's time to stop arguing.

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>blocking someone doesn't mean you lost the argument.

It does when you make one last comment about your point, and then block them so they can't reply to you!

I guess the "last word" people who were so used to always winning just can't handle meeting another "last word" person.

Or they want to make it look like the person they were arguing with couldn't refute their final point.

Da fuq

At work a couple months ago, a guy was complaining that Democrats are responsible for all of the economic downturns of the last 40 years.
I asked him who he thought was president in '08.
He said Obama.
You just have to walk away from that.

My dad always liked to say, “Only a fool argues with an idiot.”

I learned that you can’t convince someone against their will.

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On a personal and effective level? Not really, comrade

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Lots of people don't want to be convinced. People believe what they want to believe. Doesn't matter what's right or wrong. (You will be wrong plenty of times as well) Oftentimes they know they are wrong but will still fight you or try to pivot to a different topic.

This realization has helped me quite a bit. I am now much quicker to concede arguments I would've drawn out when I was younger.

This right here. Some people just aren’t worth the engagement.

this is a great point, so many of us live in echo chambers.

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I had this realization after having discussions with family about the 'COVID conspiracy'. Their reply was basically there's nothing you can do to change my mind. It changed my mind on what's worth arguing about.

I used to do this all the time. I love being right, and I still do, but I used to always correct people. When I was younger, one day my friend called me out on it. Said that I always put him down. That stuck with me. Since then, I always think twice about whether or not it's worth correcting someone, especially if it's harmless for them to continue believing the wrong thing and they were excited about it.

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It's called "marriage."

Now if only I could get them off the phone when I tell them we can’t do anything

r/climateskeptics

Don't look in my recent comments

U blok I juan is pretty standard

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And the other way around, if someone is sure that you are wrong, question yourself. Don't be a dick, it's possible that you are wrong.

I sometimes have to tell myself, "DO NOT ENGAGE." I try to tell other people the same thing, but they rarely listen. The urge to prove someone wrong is too strong sometimes.

Aside from that, she's really posting good LPTs.

These are the same idiots who will insist that there were no terrorist attacks against the US during Dubya's reign of error.

Winning a /r/hermancainaward is the only way those to reach those people.

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Indeed, at the least, this one is

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It's a great sentiment to remember, harder to feel out when it's your good friends. That is to say I don't mean it becomes harder to stop arguing with said friend, but it becomes harder to know when they are pushing themselves of exploding and taking it too far internally.

"It's okay if you don't agree with me. I can't force you to be right."

“ you know what (pause) I’d like to agree with you….. but then we’d both be wrong.” Then walk away - highly effective

After they show how ignorant they are and don't listen to anyone but their own voice. Agree with them and convo with someone else

OP also tries to guilt trip people into subscribing to her onlyfans, which in my opinion makes everything else irrelevant.

It’s unfortunate when people see somebody saying “I was wrong about x” as some sort of character flaw.

Stop your paranoia and reading alarming environment articles/tweets/shits, enjoy life instead

Wanna tell my ex wife that? Thanks!

True. I have a co-worker who can't seem to fathom the idea that he's wrong so whenever I say we'll that's an opinion an he acts like his opinion is fact I just stop paying attention.

Thanks...that was a nice surprise

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I saw a Facebook meme years ago that said “Fighting with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. Regardless of the outcome, it’s still going to strut around like it won and shit on the board.” Paraphrasing but that’s the gist anyway!!

What does that have to do with anything there, Salt Master….?

I agree that arguing with some people is a waste of your time.

But simply saying "OK" and go on your merry ways will validate them in their wrongness and gradually make them more pigheaded and stubborn.

I believe the right way to handle such people is telling them they are wrong without letting yourself get drawn into a spun out argument. Just let them know that they are wrong, perhaps with a smattering of arguments, and then go on your merry ways.

Like this:

Moron: "Guh buh luh".
You: "You're wrong. Guh doesn't buh luh"
Moron: "Yes, but guh buh luh".
You: "No, you're wrong like I already pointed out. Goodbye!"

One of the finest tips I’ve seen here. Well said!

If people haven't reasoned themselves into a position, you can't reaaon them out. The super red flags for me are when they resort to conspiracy type shit or talk about how they heard it on talk radio. Especially when they're like "There's a bigger picture here" or "they do this thing around elections and it will magically go back" and tadaaaa it never happens. But you just keep dreaming, pal. Show me a vetted source or actual data. What? You can't? Oh my how shocking.

My Son told me once, Dad, you can't win arguing with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and win! I don't know where he heard that from, but it is true!

Creep

The problem starts when people's widespread incorrectness poses an actual existential threat to humanity in the long run. Then, we can't afford not to try to convince them, no matter how vain the hope of succeeding.

See: vaccines, climate change, guns, healthcare. People's stances on these are literally resulting in avoidable deaths. Thus, I will never stop trying to reach people. Call me an optimist, but I have to believe it's worth it.

This.

It took me long time to understand this.

There’s a great quote from Mark Twain; “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”

When this happens I do a slow blink, turn my head slightly, narrow my eyes and stop speaking for full effect.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that the "entire future of our species" was at stake. The solution is finding people with the skills to innovate in a way that progresses us enough that we do not need to magically change the base attributes of the human race. You will NEVER fix the issues you seek to by belligerently arguing with normal people living average lives. Yes, there are healthy habbits we can all implement that will help a little, but what is needed is a paradigm shift in how we extract, process and distribute materials and resources, and this is entirely possible if we encourage everyone who has the ability to start working on the problems. The innovations we have made in the last 15 years are already far and a way ahead of what we predicted would happen, and we have already averted the worst of it. There is a long ways yet to go, but we can get there.

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I think you can assertively tell someone that they are factually wrong, but walk away from the argument. They will think they've won, but you are not validating them. It's more about keeping your own sanity. I get it, I have gotten sucked into many unfruitful arguments.

Someone already mentioned here, but one of my favourite quotes is by Mark Twain, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Nowadays I don't correct anyone about things I know are wrong unless it's someone I care about and I don't wan't them to be wrong. Some random coworker tells me the Earth is flat? Sure mate whatever.

You don't have to always change other's opinion, first of all you might be wrong yourself, second you can just agree to disagree like adults should do, third you can take the other person's opinion and take your time to think about it later, maybe you'll find something valuable in a different point of view, but it takes time. Hopefully the other person will do the same.

Works on the internet, does not work for group projects. You can't let them be wrong because you are virtually wrong with them.

I started doing this a while ago. Just last week my brother told me "You always do this, you just go silent when you can't argue!".

Frustrating bastard.

And another favorite by Paine "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

Oh I like that one

The block button exists for a reason. People will definitely come at you and egg you on to argue with them and I'm like I don't give a fuck about entertaining you

Being correct rarely ever matters to anyone. They want to be right.

...why would you bring that up?

Depends. This situation can be caused by either debater being close minded.

For example, arguing with a flat earther can make you angry. Not saying you should get angry, but I see it happening.

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Vegans are some of the worst at it.

Obviously it's not a single 'ideaology'

But when people try and argue for environmental conservation, morality of animal slaughter and nutrition all at the same time, they stumble over themselves and make terrible points.

They then refuse to engage and start calling you names.

Love them enough to let them go

Funny. I see carnists do that more often. Make terrible points.

I believe I'm somewhat similar. Do you have any tips on how to have it under controll? Because more often than not I do it unconsciously and catch myself after, that I was rather obnoxious for very trivial things.

Arguments don’t just go away because you don’t want to hear them. Pretending they’re not there because you can’t hear them means that you just don’t want to hear them, not that you’re “above” the argument. If you’re blocking someone else for your mental health or safety or whatever then sure that makes sense, but arguments continue to exist even when you thumb your nose at them.

I disagree. If you are right, you should fight till the end!

For me, it's become like second nature. I always keep it in mind and remind myself to think about it, then eventually it became natural for me. That being said, I do find myself still doing it from time to time, but it's not to the degree where it's problematic.

I think in general, it's really just thinking about what you're going to say before saying it.

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Well in the flat earther context, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.” – Bill Murray

I always think that asking them "what would it take to change your mind?" Gives you an idea of whether or not it's worth engaging. If they say "nothing" then you're better off going home and having a nice cup of tea and a sit down

Except I have the right to choose if I want to keep participating in an argument. I’m allowed to walk away, blocking is just the internets version of walking away from an argument. You can not force someone to participate in an argument with you. Telling someone they aren’t allowed to block you because you are in argument is ridiculous. You have no such control over anyone.

Edit: just saying this to further prove my point. You don’t need a reason to block anybody.

I never said that. Like I said, you can leave an argument for mental health or safety reasons, or really any reason you want. The issue that I’m saying is that that doesn’t mean the argument is over.

Doesn’t mean that you loose either. I didn’t say that you said those things, I only said them to further my point. - apologies if there was confusion.

Can't remember who said it but reminds me of the quote "never argue with stupid people; they pull you down to their level and beat you with experience"

And then you get stuck in a "Show me the evidence." loop.

That is true. But that's the same outcome as the nothing state. So you're only barely late for your tea and sit down

There is a fine line here. Let everyone be wrong and suddenly Trump is president.

“ I always entertain the notion that I'm wrong, or that I'll have to revise my opinion. Most of the time that feels good; sometimes it really hurts and is embarrassing." - AB; words I try and live by

It’s okay, I agree about losing now though. Looking back I probably said that as an ego thing because just because it’s over doesn’t mean you lost it, just that it’s not worth it to continue, which is totally fair

Exactly! Life’s too short to have long arguments over nothing.

And yet here we were! 🤣

Some people need to experience failure to learn the lesson themselves. Usually because they are quite smart and are got most things right (but not smart enough to appreciate good advice when given)

I dealt with coworkers like this in the past and was one myself a long time ago. It’s way easier to let people fail then help them standing back up than prevent them from failing tbh.

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Yes and it prevents you from also looking wrong

My theory is: they start cursing, you win

Only a fool negotiates with a mule.

Tucker Carlson face?

Also, some people argue for the sake of arguing.
Winning for them is to simply rile you up, so they may say and do a lot of dumb shit, just to keep you hanging on.

I hate vampires.

It takes 7 people to convince 1 person that something is good, but it only takes one person to convince 7 people that something is bad.

Also, I would say to stop yourself from getting angry or frustrated, don't even go into conversations like that with the intent to change someone's opinion. They go a lot smoother when you're just trying to understand their opinion and they're trying understand yours.

This is a great lesson. It's important to know when winning the battle just doesn't matter. Let people be wrong about insignificant things, who cares.

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My rule of thumb share ur opinion and if the other person insists otherwise just stop

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It’s a contest for the spiritually short-sighted to constantly prove how right they are. I’m pleased every time I offer nothing in return.

You need to go tell this to all of twitter. Haha. It's amazing the arguments on there between such entrenched sides.

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I'll add, it's more than some people. It's MOST people. It's far more peaceful to just let them be.

This is freaky. I was literally JUST thinking about this based on a post I just read about Peace, and I picture myself with enormous patience for my mother, having a conversation that we need to have and accepting that she’ll never see my side and it’s ok that she’s wrong (she really is, she just thinks I’m not telling the truth about something). So, peace is accepting things as they are, not what we think they should be and part of that is letting my mother be wrong. What an amazing message from the universe. Thank you.

Or just don’t argue with anyone. Most people can’t be convinced to change their opinions. Speak your mind when appropriate, but unless someone is showing that they’re interested in a rational debate of facts and ideas, walk away when they start arguing without providing reliably sourced facts. I’ve learned that most people either make up facts (or get them from memes on social media) or use anecdotal evidence to back up their nonsense.

Yes, evoke emotion and walk away

They have every right to be wrong

That point is when they have stopped listening with intent to understand. My opinion is not validated by other people, and my time is not free. If somebody asks me about how I see a particular matter, I am happy to explain; if they don't want to hear it, well then they can certainly be free.

For sure.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it’s “closed-minded,” as in someone has closed their mind to new information or differing opinions.

Me at work. I don't fight people at work unless I'm responsible for them because their screwup reflects on me. If someone on the same footing or higher than me wants to argue when they're wrong... hey, go ahead and walk face first into that wall that you don't think is there.

I often have to remind myself I'm not their parent, nor paid to be their teacher. Why do I care to correct them?

'It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.'

-Bill Murray

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lol <3 ty

The real LPT always in the comments

I've noticed that sometimes you can just nod to their opinions and waste so much less time. I do this with my grandparents : I'm a not going to change their mind so I just nod and get over with it. I don't want to spend the time I have with them arguing.

I often find myself in situations where someone is telling me something blatantly wrong and I just don't have the energy or desire to correct them.

Someone was telling me about the Billions of people in the US. Compared to the millions in Asia. And yes, they meant what they said because they repeated the billion part a few times.

I usually just kinda zone it out and pretend to be paying attention.

Also related to convincing other people of your opinions: not all your friends have to like what you like and hate what you hate. If they really like something and you really hate it, just let them enjoy it.

Only time you have to express that you don't like the thing is if they're trying to talk about it to you you can just politely say "dude sorry I'm really not interested in <insert name of thing>"

Step 1: Start apologizing when you realize it after: “Sorry, I just realized I was being an ass about [x].”

This practice alone will help you be more mindful, & not treat conversation like a competition.

Step 2: Be slower to speak in general. Don’t wait for the first moment to jump in—wait for the moment when you know they’ve made their point.

When you’re purposefully listening for the main point, you’re less likely to let yourself be distracted by irrelevant trivia or semantics.

Bonus Step: Try to ask more questions! Even just confirming back to them what they said before you respond will help you slow down, & think before you speak.

One of Dale Carnegies many great tips from “How to Win Friends and Influence People” is to not argue at all, especially petty things. In fact one of the best ways is to listen, most people only half listen and it’s rare to find someone who does it fully and with no judgement.

In this, the best of all possible worlds

Who says I'm belligerently arguing? I get angry when people are presented with evidence and refuse to accept it, because that's willing ignorance.

Before climate change, what threat has threatened the entire planet? One could make the argument that there have been diseases, but there's nothing on the scale of climate change in our history, affecting as many people as it is. It's a planetary problem.

We have definitely NOT averted the worst of it, what are you talking about??

And exactly! What we need is a planetary shift in the way we extract and utilize resources. The system we have has no failsafe or incentive to stop the problems we are facing, and in fact is the cause of said problems. We can hope that innovation will happen, but that's in no way any kind of stable method or excuse to continue on the path we are on.

Normal people living average lives are exactly the people who need to see what's going on and fight for change. The collective is all we have.

This works with lots of co workers

This. Conspiracy theorists, especially, don't debate. Their arguments are full of fallacies and they keep moving the goal posts. It's impossible to debate them cause they'll keep changing the topic with redirection.

We need to stop allowing them to do this. Call them out on this, point out the fallacy directly and emphasis that they aren't good at arguing/debating, that they're good at misdirection/moving the goal posts.

Their entire tactic is to keep the opposing side back-peddling to cover new information based on fallacies that the conspiracy theorist randomly throws out there.