IAmA anthropologist and filmmaker making a documentary about the transgender community in Kashmir. AMA!

Submitted by Luigi_Conte t3_xvmvio in IAmA

The other border - a third gender struggle in the world's most militarized place

Hi Reddit! I'm Simone Mestroni, an Italian filmmaker and anthropologist. I’m working on a documentary project about the life conditions and the struggle for emancipation of transgender people in the conflict-affected territory of Kashmir. As you can imagine, there are quite a few challenges facing the transgender community in the area and it’s a topic I’m very passionate about raising more awareness around.

The film is now in the development stage and it's based on long-term ethnographic research I have been carrying out in the valley. I’m here answering questions together with my colleague and producer Luigi Conte.The project is part of the Documentary Campus Masterschool this year.

Ask us anything about the transgender community in Kashmir, about our filmmaking process, about the general issues we are tackling or the specific condition of this community in such a controversial context. Or anything else! We’ll be here to answer everything at 9pm Central European Time.

Hey! Time to wrap it up! Thank you for the really interesting questions and if you wish to ask I'll be back online tomorrow! Goodnight ;-)

Proof: https://i.imgur.com/fVjWHLR.jpg (Simone) and https://i.imgur.com/rJdzUn8.jpg (Luigi)

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Phermaportus t1_ir24nve wrote

Hey!

I was wondering if it's fair to call them the "transgender community" or if their gender expression is just outside the gender binary and "transgender" is just used as a bit of a shortcut to get the point across in a more westernized understanding of gender.

Also, would you say their role in Kashmiri society has expanded with time?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir260zg wrote

It is quite a controversial issue! Actually there's no word for them in Kashmiri language than a slur (Lanch), but when they informally speak to each other they use this same word (almost like afroamericans did with n..., trying to use a transformative approach). When they speak to outsiders they often use the term Hijra, which is anyway related to Hindu transgenders, or transgenders. It is also interesting to know that they have a guru-disciple social structure, with a complicated network of sisterly relation that makes actually feel we're speaking of a community.

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aagjevraagje t1_ir29zds wrote

>It is also interesting to know that they have a guru-disciple social structure, with a complicated network of sisterly relation that makes actually feel we're speaking of a community

It's weirdly simular to like ballroom culture in the west in that regard.

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir2cbyy wrote

As this traditional system is much older than the ballroom culture I might hypotesize that the latter might have been inspired by some pre-existing practices and rituals. In this perspective I will add that whenever there are tensions in the community (let's say someone speaking behind someone else) things are discussed and dramatized in front of the others, somehow playing with tensions and dissipating the aggressiveness throughout a ritualized approach

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gamegyro56 t1_ir2xjhm wrote

Hi! I'm also an anthropologist studying transgender communities (I'm ethnically Indian, though study Native Americans).

How do people in the transgender community reconcile their lives/identity with their religious/cultural upbringing?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir4kfhp wrote

That's quite a controversial topic:

they consider themselves Muslims even if this can be problematic as for all LGBTQI+ and they mostly pray at Sufi shrines, where Islam is often preached in a softer way.

On a broader cultural perspective I would say that they have a role when it's about marriages, and marriage is a cornerstone in Kashmiri society. This doesn't solve everything of course...families mostly do not accept their children when they realize they are non-binary and teasing at school is an ordinary thing, so self acceptance is anyway a difficult psychological path. During the teenage many of them find protection from a transgender guru and go to live in a queer family cluster, while some neighborhoods in main cities have become somehow queer-friendly, so that they keep attracting newcomers

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Nordicblue t1_ir1xzkw wrote

Good luck! Tough subject but important - what about your access to people, I could imagine it is hard to get people to express themselves on camera on this subject?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir22r8y wrote

I have been living and doing research for a few years there, and attending marriages (where they use to perform) I got to know many of them. Of course it is not easy to access to their most intimate issues, mostly because many of them suffered due to family and friends rejection.... but I believe that whoever we are, when we employ a significant amount of empathy, we can build incredibly strong bridges

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severe_fox0724 t1_ir1y62j wrote

What was the biggest surprise you learnt about the transgender community in Kashmir?

What made you choose this topic to focus on/ what is your process for choosing topics?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir21taw wrote

1 I think the biggest surprise is the amount of tolerance I witnessed towards the community considering the troubles that affect the area. In neighborhoods for example I always felt that asking for a transgender person's address has never created any humorous or whatever reaction.

2 The process was quite complicated: making it short...during my phd research I observed how masculine and feminine roles (as victims and perpetrators) are bringing on the vicious circle of violence in Kashmir. So I started to wonder...what about those who are outside this dichotomy? And isn't their interstitial position somehow resembling that of Kashmiris as a whole between Indian and Pakistani discourses? Then things, of course, have moved on!

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Simzter t1_ir1ued4 wrote

How does that work? I would imagine the society in a place like Kashmir is not very accepting of transgender people (or maybe I'm just biased)?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir1xfqb wrote

Actually things are quite different than what an outsider would expect considering the context. Traditionally this community covers the role of marriage matchmaking and performing at weddings. Generally speaking there's a surprising degree of tolerance towards them, even of course, some radicalized parts of the society behave quite differently. But the most important thing is that things are quickly changing nowadays!

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Simzter t1_ir1xrwl wrote

So transgender people have a role to fulfil in Kashmir society? What status does that give them?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir1z3n8 wrote

Being marriage a crucial moment for most of the people that assures them some amount of respect and visibility. Imagine to have a transgender person performing at almost every marriage you have attended in your life since childhood. That's already a first step towards acceptance. But things are actually quite controversial...at the same time the only Kashmiri word to define them is a slur (Lanch), while the formal term that is used for them is related to their profession: "Menzimiur"(middlemen)

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Simzter t1_ir23sfc wrote

You said things are changing, in what way

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir27353 wrote

On one side there's an attempt from the community to detach from other forces to represent them...for example a recently appointed government committee for transgender people was questioned as it doesn't involve any community member and it mingles Jammu's (a Hindu majority city in the South of Jammu&Kashmir) and Kashmir's transgdenders demands.

On the other side young generation, also due to internet exposure, is going for gender reassignment surgery, a trend which has created some discontent among the elders, who claim that this doesn't fit in the Kashmiri transgender tradition

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Sweaty-Data-40 t1_ir2bi7f wrote

Have you encountered any apprehension or outright opposition to filming outside of the realm of your work? i.e. the military not allowing you to proceed with camera

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir2cljh wrote

Not really...I keep away from politics and related issues!

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Overall_Chef6811 t1_ir28ylp wrote

What do you hope to achieve with your film, is it to make it a better place for the transgender people there or what?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir2aqvx wrote

Of course making a film like this means also trying to produce some social change: regarding the transgender people themselves we're implementing a partecipative approach, involving them in the realization of the documentary, giving them a voice, and training some of them in using cameras. Then it will be their job to use these skills in an autonomous way. On the other side we would like to show how is such a complicated context a deep social change is actually happening faraway from the much highlighted Kashmiri dispute and the violence that has been affecting the local people in the last decades. In a third perspective we would like to break the stereotypes western people often have about tolerance in a Muslim society, especially considering that Kashmiri Muslims are themselves a minority in in the wider context of India, and they're often depicted as fundamentalists and terrorists.

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Tuotus t1_ir2iqxq wrote

So I have multiple questions,

  1. How much would you say the kishmiri trans community differ than other trans communities of the subcontinent? What are their similarities? Are they also mainly a transfem community or are other trans people also a part of it?
  2. In your previous reply you mentioned that kishmiri transgender community act as.a matchmaker in the community. This is not something i have heard of being associated with khwaja sra community in pakistan, what do they in this role, can you elaborate on that? Are they actually part of the comolete matchmaking process or the wedding process. Is it a historical role they're filling and if yes, how does it has changed post-colonialism?
  3. As all sorts of human rights are becoming more visible in pakistan, it is causing an increased divide among the younger and older populations in how they perceive the world, things they disagree on, and the traditions they want to follow or not follow. The khwaja sra community is also obviously going through similar process, how do you think the kishmiri trans community is faring in this regard and are they able to bridge some gaps b/w the younger and older generations? Do older trans people show more or less tolerance for change in their community compared to male and female communities there?
  4. They're matchmakers but what about their own matchmaking, do kishmiri trans community also believes in spiritual asexuality?

That's all I wanted to ask, hopefukly that was not too much. Anyways waiting for your reply, peace ✌

P.s. And yes, your documentary when will it release, i would really like to watch it 😄

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir4ji1x wrote

That's quite a huge amount of questions! I will try to reply shortly:

-1Being Muslims for example they're not related to Hindu mythology as Hijra, but at the same time they adopted guru-chela structure. Many of them have relations with Indian transgender people and some even have Hindu Gurus. I have heard also someone claiming to be like "sadhus", being above caste, religion and so on...so borders are quite blurred and dynamic.

-2 Matchmaking is a profession some non transgender people also do..means collecting informations of girls and boys and presenting them to families with informations about social position, education, reputation etc...

-3 Yes...generational gap is quite an issue actually. Elders are often quite sober when it's about dressing and make up, but Youngers are more and more trying to express their female side. Gender reassignment surgery is one of this divisive topics and it's getting quite controversial.

-4 I would say that in their society, according to Islamic rules, their attitude is still acceptable till we don't speak about sexual life. So that part is not formally expressed

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gohan32 t1_ir2ntt3 wrote

I got my BA in anthro and quickly decided I couldnt have the life I wanted by following futher in academia or working what I could with just a BA.

With the path you took, do you think that lends itself to having a family and single household lifestyle? How do you "have it all" and be in the anthro field? Maybe museum work, but I couldnt justify the loans to wage ratio.

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir4klqn wrote

That is a persona choice....btw in my country I was able to get scholarships for MA and PhD, but I wouldn't consider it if that means having a lone

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starkjo t1_ir1xiic wrote

Sounds like an important and challenging theme, I wish you the best of luck! How have you worked to find characters to participate? And what plans do you have on how to spread the word and message of your film (for example to transgender communities in other territories)?

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aagjevraagje t1_ir22s3f wrote

Seeing as these 'matchmakers' are transfem will you also touch on trans people who fall outside of that space ?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir2457u wrote

This matchmaking (and performer) status is only related to trans women...It's difficult to predict what this traditional role can lead to when we speak about other trans categories, but I would say that's a starting point. It would be great for example if these people would use their social position to support other LGBTQI+ minorities, but I often see that divisions are strong...for example, as I have written in another comment, when it's about gender reassignment surgery

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starwarsgeek8 t1_ir4qe4t wrote

It's often said that Pakistan is one of only a small handful of nations (South Africa being the only other one I can think of at the moment) where legal protections for transgender people are significantly more progressive than societal attitudes at large. More often, of course, we see things happen the other way around in North America and Europe. Do you think that legal protections can be leveraged to change social attitudes in Pakistan similarly to how social attitudes have changed legal protections in North America and Europe?

Also, what would you say has been and/or will be the primary path for progress on acceptance of transgender people in Pakistani society? Lollywood representation, political representation, increased medical care/insurance coverage, a critical mass of individual coming out/openness, etc.?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir50tk5 wrote

I'm actually carrying out this project in the Indian side of Kashmir...so I feel I cannot t express any thought about transgender people's condition there. Regarding India I'm not sure in general that identity politics have been successful. The aim is progressive but to certain extent they have often produced some social envy when it's about quotas and subsidies. As many complex issues also here I find it hard to point out a simple solution. Also media visibility for sure doesn't harm, but I find even in the west it's quite different when we relate the LGBTQI+ discourse to some famous singer, actor or whatever and when it's about a family member. I always feel that progressive changes in the moral sphere are happening slowly, often on a microscopic scale far away from the highlights, and sometimes it's even hard to realize they are going on.

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IAmAModBot t1_ir1ximi wrote

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ukulsh t1_ir1z1tt wrote

What are the topics that you're going to touch?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir20ko8 wrote

There are several topics we're going to tackle in the film, but basically we'll try to cover an ongoing emancipation process and self empowerment of the community. This means also creating an autonomy among government's and NGO's attempts to take over their grievances. On the other side there are some generational tensions inside the community itself, for example when speaking about gender reassignment surgery, which is becoming popular among the youngsters, but isn't accepted by elders due to their specific tradition and their Muslim faith. Elders use to claim that changing the body would be against Islam, but some young transgender people assert that this is the way they could even marry according Islamic rules, somehow overcoming the potential stigma of homosexuality and sodomy

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SnooFloofs9806 t1_iskhg7e wrote

Do they have the same will for freedom from India as the binary genders?

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Milo_Y t1_ir2e4yv wrote

Isn't transgender just a result of a person having very narrow definitions of what a man or woman can be?

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Luigi_Conte OP t1_ir2fqc6 wrote

Perhaps that's a philosophical question..I'm afraid I'm not entitled to answer

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LogicalSpecialist7 t1_ir3t9nc wrote

Why is everything about transgender people?

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Dew-It420 t1_irojvun wrote

Why is everything about cishet people

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LogicalSpecialist7 t1_irosks5 wrote

Because the vast vast vast majority of people are straight. Also, “cis” is a nonsense label because there really aren’t any other kind of people. People who think some people are “cis” and other people are “trans” are just deluded. There is no such thing as really being a different sex than you are

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