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[deleted] t1_j8bwhz6 wrote

I have seen this referenced a thousand times. What proof do you have that a real Cherokee ever came up with this saying? Give me some proof.

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Wilwander t1_j8cxa2a wrote

It wasn’t.

It was created by white evangelist Billy Graham.

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AstroOwl_thestriks t1_j8crtag wrote

Would the fact that Cherokee came up with this saying somehow give it additional merit? Would the fact that they didn't somehow substract from its merit?

I mean, i have strong suspicion that this saying is attributed to Cherokee only to get "omg omg wise old cherokee said it by the fire so deep much wisdom very nature" reaction. But it has or has not its meaning regardless.

(Editied: numerous typos)

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HighUnderLander t1_j8d8vny wrote

Truth matters, spreading bullshit should be called out.

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AstroOwl_thestriks t1_j8dex1j wrote

Yeah, i agree.

Point i was trying to make was "okay, suppose you don't know it's Cherokee. Your opinion on this somehow changes? If it does, maybe *that* is why 'Cherokee' was added here in the first place?".

We still definitely should expose bullshit and misattributing quotes/sayings.

What i was trying to confront was not only the lie about origin, but also the *reason* the lie is here in the first place. Because next time we might not recognize the lie, or the origin will be truthful, but we still need to be aware of how attributing quote so someone might make us put more weight in it than necessary.

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TheGrumpyre t1_j8de0d5 wrote

People crave context. The quote can stand on its own, but people want to know more, and then their curiosity will lead them to find out it's fake. And it's got to be a little less motivational to be reminded that people are so willing to take shortcuts, tell little falsehoods, borrow cultural stereotypes to prop up their own invented proverbs etc. It's impossible to share the story without the context coming along for the ride.

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briefnuts t1_j8dw3ql wrote

I think you're focussing on exactly the right thing.

For example:

In "the Boy Who Cried Wolf" a young boy enjoys yelling “wolf” and laughing as the adults in his village run around in a panic. But one day, he sees an actual wolf, and cries out “wolf” to try and get someone to save him. But no one comes because noone believes him anymore.

Instead of just taking the lesson ("don't lie"), we should be putting all of our efforts into:

Who is this boy? Where did he come from? What type of wolf was it? Was it even an unfriendly wolf? When did this story take place? How old was the boy? Where were his parents? Why was there a wolf? Why was there a boy? What were his/her pronouns? What did his diet consist of? Did the boy have 2 wolves inside him too? Did 1 wolf escape? Was this why he cried wolf so much?

Conclusion: Only after getting the crucial context should we allow ourselves to take lessons from parables to heart.

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TheGrumpyre t1_j8dyyop wrote

Do you feel like all fiction is inherently duplicitous, just to a greater or lesser degree? It's all completely fake, of course. But I think that a work of fiction that claims to be a true story is not "more fake", but fake in a different way (vs a work of fiction that is up-front about being purely imaginary.)

Like, if James Cameron claimed that Titanic was based on the true romantic story of two real passengers on the Titanic, that's clearly not the same thing as making up a story about two fictional people on the Titanic.

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etfarmgirl t1_j8e9zfe wrote

I'm an old Cherokee and I would never say such shit to my grandson

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CoffeeStainedStudio t1_j8fro9j wrote

I’m an old Cherokee and it’s complete bullshit. I should know; I’m not even an old Cherokee.

My complete dipshit provincial Premier, Danielle Smith, falsely claimed to be part Cherokee and the whole Cherokee Nation in Canada called her out.

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MuskratSmith t1_j8eawbj wrote

Can attest: 60-y-o Cherokee, long haired clan. First brush of this was on Reddit about a year ago. Mebe ‘cause I was raised cracker, but this the sort of pithy nonsense my aunts and uncles woulda tossed out there along with "Neither a borrower nor a lender be. . ." and "take yer hat off at dinner."

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MeBroken t1_j8cqtev wrote

Sometimes it isn't important who said what, but what was said. The only thing I'll remember is to be aware of what wolf I'm feeding, and I don't need to know who said it for it to help me.

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[deleted] t1_j8dspda wrote

[deleted]

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[deleted] t1_j8e2uz1 wrote

Ancient white guys lived very similar lifestyles to Native Americans. They hunted deer, elk and bison. They worshipped gods based on animals before Christianity was introduced to them. They wore loin cloths and animal skins to keep warm during Winter. So this idea that hurting animals is isolated to Europeans is really a dumb comment lacking any deep thinking.

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