SIGINT_SANTA t1_j966hxh wrote on February 19, 2023 at 3:41 PM

Reply to comment by just-a-dreamer- in AI - Artificial Intelligence by FreshAirCoolWater

It seems very optimistic to assume AI will mean the end of capitalism or abundance for all.

The most likely outcome seems to be it destroys us in pursuit of some objective we gave it. If you don’t think that’s a possibility I suggest you read what some of the people working on AI alignment have written.

But if by some absolute miracle that doesn’t happen, AI is going to be greatest tool of power concentration we’ve ever created. Whoever controls powerful AI would basically run the world. The default outcome is that some large company or government will have their hands on the levers.

just-a-dreamer- t1_j968uvg wrote on February 19, 2023 at 3:58 PM

Humans have the tools to destroy the world since around 1960. AI adds nothing new to the threat of anahilation.

A self improving AI has the capabilities to bring about an age of abundance for humanity. Or wipe out all humans. Both will be the end of capitalism, which is good, one way or another.

In this inter-connected world, even the rich can't contain AI forever, the technology will spread eventually across the globe I think. Somebody somewhere will push AI development further for some reason of self interest.

Even the rich are not that united, there are so many layers of billionaires fighting each other. For example, the Saudi aristocracy is insanely rich as a group, but internally 1.000 male princes fight for power in their respective game of thrones.

SIGINT_SANTA t1_j96eukp wrote on February 19, 2023 at 4:41 PM

The scale of AIs threat of annihilation is much higher than that of nuclear weapons. And the incentives to improve AI are much stronger than the incentive to make more dangerous nuclear weapons. And the challenge of preventing AI proliferation is much harder than the challenge of preventing proliferation of nuclear weapons.

I also think it’s unlikely that a nuclear war would actually cause human extinction. It would certainly kill a ton of people (perhaps almost all). But even in the worst case scenarios it seems very likely that a few million would survive in New Zealand or some other remote location.

And do you really hate capitalism so much that you would kill your family and friends to end it? Really?

just-a-dreamer- t1_j96g8t6 wrote on February 19, 2023 at 4:50 PM

Capitalism dies in the age of abundance, for trading labor for goods and services would become pointless. That is a goal worth of any risk, including extinction.

Besides, what are we left with without AI progress? The climate is collapsing slowly and international conflict is coming back. This time with nuclear arsenals. We were 1.5 billion in 1900, now we are at 8 billion in 2023.

Too many people competing for a smaller and smaller pool of available resources.

We either grow in technology or we die, that is our only path forward. If we could eradicate capitalism along the path, humanity could vote on a shared destiny how we want the world to look like for future generations to come.

SIGINT_SANTA t1_j9c262c wrote on February 20, 2023 at 8:47 PM

Without AI we’re left with the prospect of increasing lifespan and welfare, improving medicine, human genetic engineering, colonization of the solar system and galaxy, new knowledge, and a few trillion years of starlight left before the universe goes dark.

That sounds pretty damn good to me.

I think your gloomy attitude about climate change is also misplaced. In nearly all developed countries, carbon emissions per capita are flat or falling.

just-a-dreamer- t1_j9c52jj wrote on February 20, 2023 at 9:06 PM

Looks like it doesn't matter what I want, for progress is inevitable.

The big tech companies pushing AI not out of principles, but to increase shareholder value. As do countless smaller companies and open source projects. Progress is a side effect of greed after all.

The popular stable diffusion technology is now down to 100.000-300.000 Dollars in costs thanks to optimization. It used to costs tens of millions of Dollar. It is within the price range of a startup and spreads.

Once AI models are trained one time in earnest, they tend to get small enough to make the rounds within the ecosystem of startups and open source projects spreading technological progress.

And there is the military and government agencies. They tend to be more controlling, but technology developed once also finds the way out of their hands due to bribes. They are corrupt after all.

All in all, AI progress is accellerating fast. The entire AI ecosystem is moving right now with money being poured in.

As important, young talent is flocking to the field full speed, money is usefull but passion is even more important.

SIGINT_SANTA t1_j9c7czb wrote on February 20, 2023 at 9:21 PM

Yes, I think you’re right. That’s why we’re fucked.