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blackthornjohn t1_j7w9c6r wrote

Reply to comment by strvgglecity in UK: Fast charging EVs more expensive than filling petrol by nastratin

And using public charging points, in other words comparing the most expensive way of getting electricity to the cheapest way of getting petrol (the cheapest of the ice fuels).

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Froot_of_the_loom t1_j7wgggc wrote

If fuel is still cheaper despite being massively more taxed than electricity EVs will have a hard time selling.

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blackthornjohn t1_j7wh11k wrote

This is true and current ice fuel is coming down in price.

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Froot_of_the_loom t1_j7wkysa wrote

Hopefully. Just to make it clear: I'm not against EVs, but the often cited "it's so cheap to charge" as a major selling point doesn't really apply in countries where electricity has become the cash cow for the state.

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blackthornjohn t1_j7wpu9d wrote

I'm totally with you, I'd have one if I was buying new because most of our journeys are less than 20 miles a day and it could charge at home on the cheap tariff 90% of the time, we'd probably keep the dino juce car for long journeys and towing, butvto be blunt, solar pv panels are definitely going to be way before seriously looking to buy an electric car.

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[deleted] t1_j7z735o wrote

I think you save more money with an EV charging from home than you can with solar panels. Solar panels still take like 16-22 years to payback the investment.

>How Much do Motorists Really Spend on Fuel? Motorists spend an average of £1,288 a year to fuel a petrol and £1,795 for a diesel, for cars with average fuel economy

An EV charged from home will payback in more like 7-8 years, plus you get a new ride out of the deal vs just roof panels. The real downside is just the higher purchase price and the fact its very new tech that's going to have some bugs.

The easy way to manage money is to think about everything in terms of how long to get a payback from this investment. The investments that pay back the fastest are pretty much always the best.

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[deleted] t1_j7z5yxo wrote

I don't think there is any country where it's more expensive to charge because of the cost of electric. It's just the charging stations like the title says....

But.. by far.. more people charge from home and with gas you don't usually get the benefit of filling from home so of course there is no cost savings, but there is the extra hassle. Most people will not need to charge their car out and about, their daily commute it well below a single charge from home...especially in Europe where everything in more crammed together and people drive shorter distances.

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Froot_of_the_loom t1_j7z721b wrote

I don't need the long distance. The matter is the price. And some folks pay 50 cents at home even.

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[deleted] t1_j7z5aqa wrote

Not really, the average person only drives like 20-40 miles per day depending on the country and we can see EVs sales are climbing fairly fast. Maintenance costs will generally be significantly less and eventually purchase price will also be less since it's really a much simpler vehicle with less to go wrong.

The few times you need to charge away from home really aren't going to add up to much for most people. For people who don't fit the average use patterns, like people who commute long distances daily, they may want to wait for better/cheaper batteries.

You have to get through you head that EVs are different than gas that can only be filled at a gas station and that it's ultimately far more convenient to have something that charges at home and covers like 90% of your driving without needing to stop for fuel, which is both convenient and time saving for most of your car use even if it's not the other 10% or so of the time you go for a long trip.

Long term electric will wind up being dirt cheap as energy storage eventually hits commercially viable numbers, which will probably be by the end of this decade. Solar and wind are much cheaper than other options.. when they are working, for now we have to pay a lot of added costs to run fossil fuel even though it's way more expensive because we can't store the cheap wind and solar.

Soo the transition periods are never ideal, but the benefits in lowering costs is so significant you can't ignore it. The fact that generation 1 EVs are already cheaper to operate vs DECADES of internal combustion research and improvement means EVs will almost certainly also improve substantially from this point.

The fact they aren't cheaper in every situation right out the gate really doesn't matter. The fact they can compete at all is instead a very strong sign for their future, as are their rapid increase in sales even if most of that is still plug-in. That doesn't represent a lack of consumer demand, just a lack of ideal batteries.

Countries can handle the charging station issues different, but at the end of the day most people don't be using charging stations that much and battery capacity will only increase so I don't see any real problem there. The bigger problem is just all the grid upgrades, but that has more benefits than just EVs and it's probably just smart to modernize our grids and make them more resilient anyway.

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Froot_of_the_loom t1_j7z6pdh wrote

The majority here has no opportunity to charge at home. And having to carry a dozen cards around because of different operators and then pay 50, 70, 80 cents per kWh AND claim how "cheap" it is, doesn't work that way.

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