ReExperienceUrSenses OP t1_j71z12h wrote
Reply to comment by rogert2 in I finally think the concept of AGI is misleading, fueled by all the hype, and will never happen by ReExperienceUrSenses
You all have to really have to go on a journey with me here. The mind FEELS computable but this is misleading.
Consider this: how much of your mind actually exists separate from the body. Im sure you have attempted a breakdown. You can start by removing control of your limbs. Still there. Then any sensation. Still there. Remove signals from your viscera like hunger. Mind is still there i guess. Now start removing everything from tour head and face. Sight sound taste. The rest of the sensations in your skin and any other motor control. Now you are a mind in a jar sensory depraved. You would say still in there though. But thats because you have a large corpus of experiences in your memory for thoughts to emerge from. Now try to imagine what you are if you NEVER had any of those experiences to draw from.
So to expand what i was getting at a bit further, when i say visceral experience i mean that all the coordinated activity going on in and around all the cells in your body IS the experience. You say processing doesn’t occur in the eye but that is the first place it does. The retina is multiple layers of neurons and is an extension of the brain, formed from the embryonic neural tissue. If you stretch it a bit further, at the molecular level, everything is an “extension” of the brain. If everything is then you can start to modularize the body in different ways. Now you can think of the brain as more the medium of coordination than the executive control. Your mind is the consensus of all the cells in your body.
The things I’ve been hypothesizing about in my studies of microbiology and neuroscience requires this bit of reconceptualizing these things, choosing a new frame of reference to see what you get.
You can think of neurons as both powerful individual organisms in their own right AND a neat trick: they can act in concert as if they were a single shared cytoplasm, but remain with separate membranes for speed and process isolation. Neurons need to quickly transmit signal and state from all parts of the body, so that, for instance, your feet are aware of whats going on with the hands and they can work together to acquire food to satisfy the stomach. This doesn’t work in a single shared cytoplasm with any speed and integrity at the scale of our bodies. Some microorganisms coordinate into shared cytoplasms, but our evolutionary line utilized differentiation to great affect.
Everyone makes the assumption that I’m saying humans are special. I’m really not. This applies to all life on this planet. CELLS are special, because the "computing power" is unmatched. Compare electronic relays vs vacuum tubes vs transistors. Can’t make a smartphone with vacuum tubes. Likewise, transistors are trounced by lipid membranes, carbohydrates, nucleic acids, and proteins among other things, in the same way. Computers shuffle voltage; we are “programmable” matter (as in, matter that can be shaped for purpose by automated processes, not that there are programs involved. Because there aren't). This is a pure substrate comparison, the degree of complexity makes all the difference, not just the presence of it. We are matter that decomposes and recomposes other matter. Computers are nowhere near that sophistication. Computers do not have the power to even simulate fractions of all that is going on in real time, because of rate limiting steps and combinatorial explosions that cause exponential time {O(n^2)} algorithmic complexity All you have to do is look up some of our attempts to see the engineering hurdles. Even if its logically possible from view of the abstract mathematical constructs, that doesn’t mean it can be implemented. Molecular activity at that scale is computationally intractable.
To go further, even if it is not computational intractable the problem still remains. How do you encode the things I've been talking about here. Really try to play this out in your mind. What even does just some pseudocode look like. Now look back at your pseudocode. How much heavy lifting is being done by the words. How many of these things can actually be implemented with a finite instruction set architecture. With Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle lurking about, how accurate are your models and algorithms of all this molecular machinery in action.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments