andrevvm t1_j57mg20 wrote on January 20, 2023 at 11:31 PM

Reply to comment by Tomycj in How close are we to singularity? Data from MT says very close! by sigul77

A specific example could be cars. Nobody really needs to own one, they sit unused the majority of the time. The individualist/identity market has further commodified them unnecessarily.

Communal access to them has been tricky logistically, and currently somebody does need to own them to prevent chaos. However, AI and trustless networks could solve a lot of those menial and inefficient tasks. A public transportation network, that has trustless incentives to maintain and operate would be really cool to see I think. Feasibility, yeah, not so sure… requires a large behavioral shift as well.

Ownership and money are closely tied. Reducing ownership could lessen the power of money (but not obsolete), easing divisive political discourse, resulting in a less divided population, who are more inclined to work together as a whole to keep the wheels turning. Daydreaming here, but we don’t know what future societies look like.

Tomycj t1_j585851 wrote on January 21, 2023 at 1:51 AM

>Nobody really needs to own one, they sit unused the majority of the time

Most of our stuff sits unused most of the time. Part of their value and usefulness, is the fact they are there, safe and ready to be used when needed.

>The individualist/identity market has further commodified them unnecessarily.

The market is simply the network of people trading stuff. Cars, as lots of things that satisfy our needs, are commodities. By individualist you mean "people do not want to share"?

Look, I'm not saying the current situation is the ideal, but so far, it's around the best most people can do. The market must be free precisely to improve on that situation, once the conditions allow it. There's people constantly trying to come up with a better solution, and those ideas are constantly being "tested" in the market.

AI and other new tech does have the potential to change the paradigm, to enable more efficient use of things that remain unused, without losing the benefit of safety and availability I mentioned before. But that solution doesn't necessarily have to be some sort of communal property. You seem to like to imagine that would be better, but as others said, there are problems with it, that aren't necessarily solved with more tech.

>Ownership and money are closely tied

Because money is a tool to trade more efficiently. Without it, we would have to resort to bartering. Money is not inherently bad, wanting to get rid of it should not be a motivation to eliminate the concept of property. The idea that without money society would be kinder and more organized for the greater good is just a fantasy, that would absolutely not happen. In reality, money is an important component in a system that allows for people to work together: it allows you to work for things that others want (say, making toys), in exchange for things that you want (money from the salary to buy the things you want). The system of prices (which relies on money) is an extremely powerful, decentralized way to transmit information and organize our work at large scale.

andrevvm t1_j587wsy wrote on January 21, 2023 at 2:12 AM

I’m not here to be right friend, I’m just having fun pontificating. But thank you for reiterating that money won’t be obsolete and the detailed description of how it works!

Tomycj t1_j58p701 wrote on January 21, 2023 at 4:39 AM

I know, I just like to discuss these things, and this sub is in part for these sorts of things: how could society work in the future.

h3lblad3 t1_j58dcag wrote on January 21, 2023 at 2:56 AM

>ommunal access to them has been tricky logistically, and currently somebody does need to own them to prevent chaos. However, AI and trustless networks could solve a lot of those menial and inefficient tasks. A public transportation network, that has trustless incentives to maintain and operate would be really cool to see I think.

Nothing stops a perfectly viable public transportation system that is all-encompassing from existing now except the utter lack of profit in running it.

>Ownership and money are closely tied.

Ownership of capital is the sign of success in our society. Money is the entity that acts as a go-between allowing for ease of pricing and exchange of different forms of capital. They are not "closely tied"; they are inseparable.