RoxyGlaw t1_j6g6y9d wrote on January 30, 2023 at 2:29 AM

Most people don’t want to do squat but still have wants. Almost everyone wants more than their neighbors. A large portion of the population will do the very least they can get by with. people will trade whatever you give them for what they want even if you make it illegal. Move a stack of boards from one side of the construction site and then move them back just to make it look like they are doing something. “Capitalism “ as the Socialist/Communists call it (free market economy) is not perfect but definitely rewards the motivated and penalizes the lazy. The people calling for “fairness” don’t really want fairness. It is fair to get rewarded for the amount you contribute and to be penalized for inactivity. Every system that has tried it collapsed after the workers figured out they will get the same amount for less and less effort and then come the death squads.

strvgglecity t1_j6gfm7e wrote on January 30, 2023 at 3:27 AM

Capitalism rewards those with capital far more than those with ideas or innovation. Hard work is a bullshit line capitalists feed to you. Nurses in an ER work MUCH harder every single day than bill gates or Donald Trump has ever worked in their lives. Bill gates received investment from people he knew, and he didn't invent the thing that made him rich. Trumpie was onv just handed a massive pile of cash. And others who do have ideas and make money then gain exponential power to increase their wealth that every day citizens cannot access.

Yet, nurses aren't billionaires, and in fact some do live paycheck to paycheck while they spend their days saving lives. America simply gave the power of making law to lobbyists and corporations that spent the last 50 years rewriting the laws and the tax code to increasingly shift wealth from the population to the corporations and those who invest in them.

RoxyGlaw t1_j6ht05z wrote on January 30, 2023 at 12:53 PM

You use a few examples of people with a silver spoon to suggest the game is rigged. “Easy come, easy go” is a real thing. There are lots of folks that started with nothing and made it big. As far as the Nurse statement goes who in there right mind would suggest “nurse” as a golden ticket to Billionaire status? “Capitalism “ (free markets) gives the well motivated and talented the best chance of gathering a comfortable life of any other system.

strvgglecity t1_j6iq6zz wrote on January 30, 2023 at 4:56 PM

You said capitalism rewards the motivated and penalizes the lazy. Nurses aren't lazy, capitalism rewards greed and moral bankruptcy, NOT hard work. I guarantee you don't work harder than a landscaper and the owner of all your local McDonald's doesn't work harder than any of the teenagers they employ. Your opinions are just not based on facts.

RoxyGlaw t1_j6ktf30 wrote on January 31, 2023 at 1:00 AM

Dude really? That’s your argument. If your only goal in life is to work at freaking McDonalds your whole life and be the greatest fry maker ever! You wont get anywhere. I started out using a shovel to dig ditches for irrigation in orange groves in Florida but that’s not where I ended up! If you have no more motivation than to stick in a dead end job I don’t care what system you are in, you will go no where. If you can’t figure out the difference i can see why you think Communism’s a good idea. Free markets reward - communism only benefits the lazy.

strvgglecity t1_j6lm6id wrote on January 31, 2023 at 4:45 AM

You said capitalism rewards the motivated. It. Does. Not. Many nurses are as motivated as any startup CEO.

It more effectively rewards those specifically motivated TO SEEK MONEY ABOVE ALL ELSE. No matter the human, resource or societal cost, to seek profit. See: Facebook & leaded gasoline

decoy1985 t1_j6gzu48 wrote on January 30, 2023 at 6:35 AM

I disagree. Most people want to do plenty of things, but can't because they have to grind away at a pointless job to survive. Artists and musicians are one example. Also tons of people would rather pursue hobbies and develop them into crafts and trades but they can't because there is no way to survive doing that, and working a job doesn't leave time to ever take it that far. Likewise tons of people would rather be developing tech skills, coding, researching, and innovating, but get stuck in dead end jobs, or otherwise can't find the time or money to get there.

If it wasn't for the pandemic, and having months of time and some CERB to cover the bills, I might never have managed to put enough time and effort into woodworking to turn it into a job now. At the very least it would have taken many more years. I worked my ass off during my extra time off, and I am not special or unique in any way.

People want to do the things that interest them, that they can engage with, that give them fulfillment, which matter. Capitalism presents significant barriers to that most of the time.

They might not work as many hours a day or week given the chance to take time for their families, for self care, and for living, but that just speaks to how much capitalism drives people to work like dogs to the detriment of everything else in their life. It doesn't mean people are being lazy for wanting to have a healthy work life balance.

You seem to be labouring under a delusion. That system has never been tried. There has yet to be an actual communist nation on Earth. The USSR and China failed their revolutions and were co-opted into brutal authoritarian state capitalism, and then exported that corrupt system under false label of communism and socialism.

Capitalism doesn't reward the motivated, it rewards those who are already wealthy. The rest of us mostly get held down and often punished despite working our asses off. Most of those so-called lazy are actually disabled or otherwise infirm, and suffer immensely for it under capitalism. There is nothing fair about how capitalism works. It is a system of massive inequality built on exploitation and generational wealth. It is the height of delusion to claim the rich were rewarded for hard work and everyone else is being penalized for being lazy.

RoxyGlaw t1_j6hse0y wrote on January 30, 2023 at 12:47 PM

That’s cool you can disagree. You make some great points like your experience with becoming a wood worker and how hard you had to work to get there. Also your point about how there has never been a true communist state and how it was always compromised by thugs and the people we’re repressed. I agree with all of that. Where we diverge is basic human nature. I’m sure our experiences in getting to where we are right now have been considerably different. My opinion of human nature has been shaped by those experiences as yours has. To me a true egalitarian society is impossible. I would love to see something like that possible but until we can banish greed and pettiness from the human genome we will continue to see egalitarianism used as a tool to enslave by Megalomaniacs. I must also disagree with the “capitalism” (free markets) not rewarding the motivated (personal experience).