nox404 t1_ixibup5 wrote on November 23, 2022 at 5:36 PM

Reply to comment by etzel1200 in On The Rising Non-Working Class (And What Their Despair Says About Us All) by capcaunul

Basic income is about giving choice to those who otherwise do not have it.

Wasted potential of people who do not want to contribute? What potential does forced labor have? I would argue that we waste so much more potential by keeping people in poverty and living pay check to pay check. Working 60 - 70 hour weeks to just meeting the basic needs. Families who can not spend any time together since mom and dad need to both work 50 hour weeks and are to exhausted to spend any meaningful time with their children.

A few opposite questions,

Who job is it to provide meaningful work too every America citizen?

How much money is a living wage?

How many hours per week does every American citizen need to work to be able meeting their house, Food and energy needs?

How do we create this above in every location across the entire united states?

thegooddoctorben t1_ixjgrs8 wrote on November 23, 2022 at 10:08 PM

>What potential does forced labor have?

The idea of "forced labor" (which doesn't mean actual slavery here) is so weird to me. Everyone who doesn't have a job is being supported by people who do. Maybe it's their spouse, their parents, their siblings, or the government, but the idea that people should be free to just quit work and expect other people to support them is odd. People have had to work to survive for the entire existence of humanity.

Gremloch t1_ixk2tpm wrote on November 24, 2022 at 12:56 AM

Your argument is "It's always been this way" and isn't really an argument. Things change. We have automation enough that farmers can feed millions more people with millions fewer workers. Why should those workers now go do other stuff "just because"? That is work for work's sake, not because it's needed.

We are quickly arriving at a time where food, energy, and many necessities could be provided by automated workers and there are no need for human workers AT ALL. Should we find more work for these people and force them to do something because we oppose "free rides" or should we clothe, feed, and house them and allow them to work on whatever makes them and their communities happy and fulfilled?

I would say that an environment where everyone can experiment without the fear of failure (homelessness, starvation, etc) will lead to huge leaps in innovation and quality of life for our species.