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etzel1200 t1_ixhs48o wrote

Reply to comment by pete1901 in On The Rising Non-Working Class (And What Their Despair Says About Us All) by capcaunul

But this makes no sense. People worked even when conditions were much, much worse.

There is some sort of maladaption and people are simply checking out.

Cheap entertainment is good enough? I don’t know. Their lives are pretty shitty, but I guess they prefer this route to working?

I know a few NEETs. They’re comfortable enough they feel no need to change. They’re not happy, per se, but their needs are met.

It’s part of why I don’t get basic income. For some people it improves things. For others they just become NEETs. I think we’d end up with a lot more NEETs and it’s so much wasted potential.

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nox404 t1_ixibup5 wrote

Basic income is about giving choice to those who otherwise do not have it.

Wasted potential of people who do not want to contribute? What potential does forced labor have? I would argue that we waste so much more potential by keeping people in poverty and living pay check to pay check. Working 60 - 70 hour weeks to just meeting the basic needs. Families who can not spend any time together since mom and dad need to both work 50 hour weeks and are to exhausted to spend any meaningful time with their children.

A few opposite questions,

Who job is it to provide meaningful work too every America citizen?

How much money is a living wage?

How many hours per week does every American citizen need to work to be able meeting their house, Food and energy needs?

How do we create this above in every location across the entire united states?

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thegooddoctorben t1_ixjgrs8 wrote

>What potential does forced labor have?

The idea of "forced labor" (which doesn't mean actual slavery here) is so weird to me. Everyone who doesn't have a job is being supported by people who do. Maybe it's their spouse, their parents, their siblings, or the government, but the idea that people should be free to just quit work and expect other people to support them is odd. People have had to work to survive for the entire existence of humanity.

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Gremloch t1_ixk2tpm wrote

Your argument is "It's always been this way" and isn't really an argument. Things change. We have automation enough that farmers can feed millions more people with millions fewer workers. Why should those workers now go do other stuff "just because"? That is work for work's sake, not because it's needed.

We are quickly arriving at a time where food, energy, and many necessities could be provided by automated workers and there are no need for human workers AT ALL. Should we find more work for these people and force them to do something because we oppose "free rides" or should we clothe, feed, and house them and allow them to work on whatever makes them and their communities happy and fulfilled?

I would say that an environment where everyone can experiment without the fear of failure (homelessness, starvation, etc) will lead to huge leaps in innovation and quality of life for our species.

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixhxwj3 wrote

NEETs are better then human suffering imo

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[deleted] t1_ixi6z20 wrote

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixi869o wrote

Why the absolute need for growth? Why not chill a more, grow less? The idea of never ending growth is absurd.

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[deleted] t1_ixi8uhf wrote

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixi9h2g wrote

I think the future should be less work not more so I disagree, we should be moving towards a utopia not a dystopia.

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[deleted] t1_ixiafp6 wrote

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixiaw9x wrote

Chairs didn't exist until they suddenly did, we shouldn't let go of our goals just because they haven't been done before or resulted in fail experiments.

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[deleted] t1_ixib1bu wrote

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixibqlu wrote

Ahh yes let me explain an extremely complex economic and societal system in a reddit comment.

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[deleted] t1_ixicvf5 wrote

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ironicf8 t1_ixildjx wrote

It works is already at our very nearly at the point that all labor can be automated. Let the machines produce and let the humans do whatever they want with their time. Why did this concept scare people? Oh no we won't have jobs anymore the fucking horror....

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[deleted] t1_ixils4c wrote

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ironicf8 t1_iximmsd wrote

Yes,the purpose is what you choose to do at that point. You can study something you actually care about, find fun hobbies, read books, watch TV, play games. If you think forced labor is the only purpose in life you are a very sad person. The only people who are afraid are those living with generational wealth who already live this way and think it's due to some sort of gift they have that everyone else is lacking. When everyone can live like this then they are no longer special.

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[deleted] t1_ixinkq7 wrote

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ironicf8 t1_ixipp1o wrote

What? That's just your narrative bro. You are the one trying to force people to work who don't want to. I'm saying people can do whatever they want. There will probably be massive scientific discoveries and breakthroughs when people who want to study and learn have the freedom to do so. If some choose

>Sitting around watching tv all day

That is their choice not yours.

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[deleted] t1_ixiqc6z wrote

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ironicf8 t1_ixiqwe7 wrote

At what point in history did we have the means to produce everything we need and want with 0 labor?

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[deleted] t1_ixiug9g wrote

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ironicf8 t1_ixiwpf3 wrote

The point is no one does they are collectively "owned" by humanity. Why are you making stuff up about soul and sentience here? I'm out, I'd say have a good one but you seem pretty miserable.

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixiehcu wrote

I'd also like to know, because I also think the universe would eat us alive the moment we stop growing and suffering.

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nox404 t1_ixi93w8 wrote

Sure some suffering is necessary for growth.

We have a ton of suffering that is removing growth.

Like here let me pull out your nails and break your bones. I causing growth OMG we have growth as you heal but that is not the kind of growth we want.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixj2n0e wrote

This generation will be more dystopian than ever. They will truly sell their dignity for not suffering.

Good luck living in that world, NEETS. Or whatever you'll call yourselves.

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Rain1dog t1_ixhyu2s wrote

What is a NEET?

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PaxNova t1_ixi1ojw wrote

Not in Employment, Education, or Training.

It means they're doing nothing for income and doing nothing to improve their situation.

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eight-sided t1_ixisjz9 wrote

Cool acronym but it doesn't need to be negative. It says nothing at all about whether someone is making money from investments, and/or is happily retired, or being supported, and has a perfectly fine situation that doesn't need improvement.

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PaxNova t1_ixiua26 wrote

The full term is "Youth Not in Employment, Education, or Training." It doesn't count people retired, and if they're making money from investments, they are considered self-employed.

It does count people being supported, though if it's because of disability, that's a different category. It's possible they're just self-sufficient, but I'd they live in a city, I doubt they farm enough to feed themselves and get their income elsewhere.

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thereisafrx t1_ixk9s6v wrote

I think what you meant to say is, "that's a NEET acronym".

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JokrSmokrMidntTokr t1_ixmfj0h wrote

Wagie, Wagie, get in cagie. All day long you sweat and ragie. NEET is comfy, NEET is cool. NEET is free from work and school. Wagie trapped and wagie dies. NEET eats tendies, sauce, and fries.

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