bremidon t1_iwtxwdr wrote on November 18, 2022 at 9:19 AM

Reply to comment by whyamihereonreddit in Overhyping hydrogen as a fuel risks endangering net-zero goals by filosoful

He said it is "--> currently(!) <-- just not possible"

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Now, after having had my fun there, I would modify his statement to say that it is currently not feasible.

Let's say those projects that are being developed right now all work out. First, it will be years until they do. Ok, let's stay happy and optimistic. They do work out.

Now the lessons of the projects have to be implemented in widescale development. Conservatively, this is going to take at least 5 years.

We are looking at a best-case scenario where hydrogen will be sort of ready to start in about 10 years.

But it's not like everyone, everywhere is going to get hydrogen right away. We've watched this play out most recently with batteries. To give us some context, it will take *another* 10 years for hydrogen to reach the same point that batteries have now.

That is 20 years until hydrogen can reach the same level of penetration that its main rival, the battery, has right now. And we can see that batteries are going to need at least another 5 years to become the dominant energy transport.

So if hydrogen can be developed as fast as that, then it would take hydrogen 25 years to reach some level of prominence in our economy. Meanwhile, of course, battery technology will not have just stagnated.

I'm not saying that hydrogen has no role to play. But it is 100% being hyped up by a dying industry as a last-gasp attempt to remain relevant. I don't blame them for that. I do reserve blame for people who fall for it, though.

whyamihereonreddit t1_iwu7ua5 wrote on November 18, 2022 at 11:38 AM

Hydrogen isn't fighting for the same space as lithium batteries. Hydrogen would work a lot better for long duration or seasonal storage which lithium batteries just can't do economically. And we don't have the need for that long duration storage in the US yet (except maybe in California) and won't until there's around 75% renewable penetration, so it's fine if hydrogen is 5 years out.

bremidon t1_iwufd78 wrote on November 18, 2022 at 12:58 PM

>Hydrogen would work a lot better for long duration

Really? You sure about that? Because hydrogen is extremely bad at long duration storage.

whyamihereonreddit t1_iwug6yi wrote on November 18, 2022 at 1:06 PM

Yes, use excess renewable energy while the sun is shining and the wind is blowing to generate green hydrogen. Pump it into some salt caverns (or storage tanks if less MWh are needed). Then when the renewable resource isn't producing, you have hydrogen ready to go for longer durations.

It's not suitable for every application, but there are scenarios where hydrogen makes sense.

bremidon t1_iwuk4kq wrote on November 18, 2022 at 1:41 PM

What is your solution to keep all that hydrogen from leaking away? Storing hydrogen is notoriously difficult.

OffEvent28 t1_iwxemwn wrote on November 19, 2022 at 2:03 AM

I think storage of hydrogen will work best when you are using it as a time-shifting storehouse. Generate it during the day when the sun shines and use it the following night to generate electricity when the sun is not shining. Storage for half a day, not half a year. The shorter the time it is in storage the less you loose through the walls of the storage container.