From the Article

>India’s plan to get a fifth-generation fighter jet is slowly turning into reality. On 8 October, India Air Force Day, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari had said that work on the fifth-generation fighter aircraft program called the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft had progressed and induction of the AMCA was likely to commence 2035 onwards.
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>India’s need for a fifth-generation aircraft has intensified in recent times owing to the growing strength of Chinese and Pakistani air forces.

The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:

From the Article

>India’s plan to get a fifth-generation fighter jet is slowly turning into reality. On 8 October, India Air Force Day, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari had said that work on the fifth-generation fighter aircraft program called the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft had progressed and induction of the AMCA was likely to commence 2035 onwards.
>
>India’s need for a fifth-generation aircraft has intensified in recent times owing to the growing strength of Chinese and Pakistani air forces.

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/yv2ekw/india_a_step_closer_to_getting_its/iwc2mz9/

Whether it's Chinese, Russian or Indian. All the 5th-gen aircraft look like rip-offs of US designs. Funny how these countries can seem anti-US but spend so much time and money replicating US IP and technology.

I wonder if we'll ever see a time when another country does something new which hasn't been available in the US for decades. Or if we'll continue to live in a world where all countries continue to "follow the leader" by re-hashing something the US did already.

Lol true that! They all got big mouth with no substance.

If you think American defence companies exclusively use American innovations and technologies you’re wrong.

American companies are just first to design and build weapons because your government writes blank cheques for tools of death while the rest of us are paying for universal healthcare, paid medical leave, and affordable education.

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Let's hope they don't fuck up like how they sunk their own nuclear submarine

Recently, a high-speed rail project in my state was abandoned because of public protest. Also, the Bullet train project in Mumbai was stalled by the previous state government. It's not easy to get things done in India like China.

And yet, they still cannot protude a locally made jet engine of sufficient power and realiability for a fighter jet so they are fully reliant on external suppliers. Whoever they chose.

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Cool. And how many slums would be fixed or orphaned children's lives forever changed with the money that goes into purchasing ONE of these stupid planes? I swear, humans have completely lost touch with reality.

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So they are just 40 years behind us lol. F-22 was ready in the 90s.

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>why we need it

we the people don't need it. War businessmen need it.

I think they mean for everyone, not just those with "bigger pay checks"

Medical insurance is not universal healthcare. But if you want to give a bigger chunk of your big, fat income that you're fragile enough to brag about to State Farm, you have at it, champ.

That was my point too. America does everything first and then everyone else follows along. Which is strange since the same countries claim to be anti-America but spend their time and money copying the US.

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>America does everything first and then everyone else follows along.

Unless we're talking about supporting its own crumbling infrastructure and struggling population.

India electrified more than 80% railway tracks. Also all new trains are electric. What do you mean by dated?

Again, in regards to infrastructure the US was one of the first countries in the world to build things like subway, highways, internet etc. they built it all so long ago that now a lot of it needs to be repaired. That doesn’t mean they don’t have infrastructure in place.

Of course some countries are only now building these types of infrastructure(over 100 years after the US did) so they look new while the ones in the US look older because they are.

That doesn’t stop people from countries like India and China immigrating to the U.S. in massive numbers.

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The company making this studies 7 different 5gen aircraft design and found out this was the best

Literally only 2 country are capable to producing next gen engine.

How could they study 7 different 5 gen designs? There aren't 7 total 5gen designs currently active in the entire world.

The US has the most with the B-2, F-22 and F-35. Russia has one but has not started producing them in large numbers. China has the J-20 which isn't really a 5gen and the J-31 which is also not a 5gen jet.

So which 7 5gen were studied? Since there aren't 7 5gen jets in the whole world? Also, why copy when you can make your own design? It is possible to design 5gen craft without copying. The US does it....

They develop few designs by themselves (u can look at their older designs , they were mix of different designs)

The ones I see look like the F-22 and F-35. Similar to what the Chinese did to make the J-31. Which is also a copy of the F-35 but with horrible engines.

It's call converged evolution , it's also found in nature.

When given same set problems people tend to arrive at similar solution.

If capitalism was truly used health insurance should be cheaper. Right now the US pays much higher portions of their incomes for health insurance than any other G7 nation. It also has the worst health of the G7 as well. The taxes used for the other nations for health care are much lower than the insurance payments made by the US. So we pay the most and get the worst right now.

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Unless you're the US and come up with a solution that is not copied from elsewhere. That everyone else then copies because of "converged evolution"....

The first concept of stealth was developed by Soviet and US stole it.

Just because us came up with h it first dosent mean it's everyone else copied from them.

All commercial airlines look the same but with a few changed but it doesn't mean that everyone else copied from the first commercial plane.

Same goes with why most f-1 crs look th same

I mean. The US did rip off British steam engines and European tech when it started. What sense does it make to not build on top of existing platforms and reinvent the wheel?

Have you noticed how all High speed rails look like a copy of Shinkansens?

Lol what

India's railway modernisation efforts are possibly dwarfed only by China's (which is in an entirely different league of its own). India runs about 20,000 trains daily and a majority of them are electric. Indian coach car factories are pumping out about 15 new modern coaches every day to replace older coaches. There is also a new generation of semi-HSR trainset that has been developed in India and the factories are expected to produce 1 trainset per week in the coming year. There is also a tender put out for private players to produce 200 of these new trainsets in the next few years.

India has also undertaken a massive project of laying down new modern railway routes entirely dedicated to freight, which would free up existing lines for passanger services. There are also about 22 new metro rail lines under construction in cities across India. There is also a proper Shinkansen project puttering along (the progress is painfully slow imo). The scale of these things is gargantuan, so what did you base your moronic comment on?

First stealth aircraft was the F-117 in 1981. The first Russian stealth jet flew in 2010. If it was really a Russian idea, why did it take them almost 30 years after the US to make one?

Should India not be concentrating on public amenities like sewerage and pulling the lower castes out of poverty....?

The first concept of stealth was developed by Soviet scientist Pyotr Ufimtsev. USA stole his work to to develop f-117.

Horten Ho 229 flying wing fighter-bomber, developed in Nazi Germany during the last years of World War II proved to have some stealth characteristics due to its lack of vertical surfaces (key characteristic of all stealth aircraft plus inherent feature of all flying wing aircraft like the Ho 229). Testing performed in 2008 by the Northrop-Grumman Corporation established that the aircraft's shape would have rendered the Ho 229 virtually invisible to the top-end HF-band, 20–30 MHz primary signals of Britain's Chain Home early warning radar, provided the aircraft was traveling at high speed (approximately 550 mph (890 km/h)) at extremely low altitude – 50–100 feet (15–30 m). Despite that, the Ho 229 was never intended to be a stealth aircraft.

Also by definition this would be first stealth aircraft and not American f-117

And the soviets start making experimental stealth jets in 1980s but couldn't continue a lot due to bad economy at that time and later their economy soon collapsed

I find it funny that whenever copying is brought up, people like you will bring up the fact that the US copied 100 years ago. Before international IP and patent regulations were implemented. Yes, everyone copied from everyone a long time ago. Which is why international IP and patent protections were established to stop that from happening.

Should the world continue to allow theft or should the world continue the progress it's made in stopping theft? I would say the world is better with less theft but if you think stealing should be allowed, that's your opinion. I just hope you don't teach that to your children if you have any...

EDIT: People that downvote a post that is anti-theft are probably thieves. You must all work at one of those online scam centers or steal from tourists just to survive. Either way, you're all pathetic excuses for human beings. I hope you eventually lose more than you steal or end up in prison with the rest of the evil people of the world.

He quite possibly thinks Indians are still using trains and infrastructure left behind by the Brits.

Stop reading propoganda fake news

Again, the US made the first stealth aircraft. No one made a stealth aircraft before the US. That's not my opinion. It's a fact. Deal with it.

Pyotr Ufimtsev wrote papers on the concept of stealth that were translated to English in the 60s and helped the US develop the first stealth aircraft. He never built one himself.

The Nazi plane had stealth characteristics but was not stealth. Also, only one was ever made and it crashed. It had so many problems the nazis decided not to build them. It didn't work.

Which again confirms what I said earlier. The US produced the first stealth aircraft in world history and everyone else has been copying the US ever since. Facts. Deal with it hater lol

>Again, the US made the first stealth aircraft. No one made a stealth aircraft before the US. That's not my opinion. It's a fact. Deal with it.

Brits made the first train so are all trains made after it copy?

Nazi made the first jet engine so are all jet engine made after it a copy of it?

>Pyotr Ufimtsev wrote papers on the concept of stealth that were translated to English in the 60s and helped the US develop the first stealth aircraft. He never built one himself.

Still dosent change the fact that us stole his work to develop stealth which would have been possible without his papers

>. The US produced the first stealth aircraft in world history and everyone else has been copying the US ever since. Facts. Deal with it hater lol

Lol u are dumb and pointing out false facts dosent make u h hater. Just because us did it first dosent mean everyone copied it.

What's next every car in the world is copy of German cars as they made it first?

Nazi made the first space rocket so do all space rocket made afterwards are copy of it? (In case of usa it might be)

India made the world's first missile so does that mean all missile made afterwards are copy of it?

Just because u made something from stolen research first dosent mean everyone copied it from u. But i dought u will able understand it

The word 'copy' is used by these guys in a very very general sense here. And it tells how much they understand the basics of aerodynamics and layouts.

A delta wing for example is used on multiple aircrafts, but the configuration of its layout makes/breaks everything. Now a person who has no idea of aircraft configuration would say.. Hey, you copied delta wing configuration from so and so... In most cases, even a double delta or a modified delta is called 'delta' by these "experts".

The motorcycle is just 2 wheels, a swing arm and a frame along with wheels, suspension etc. Good job telling people that all the motorcycles were copied from each other 😂

Physics... Learn a bit of physics first.

There are 7 nations that design and produce jet engines + 2 who successfuly reverseengineered and produce stolen designs.

India is in neither of those groups.

Still can't get it good enough to make it affordable enough to put enough flying hours on it can you?

Ahem.. Autobahn... Ahem...

But yeah America great!! Exprezzways were the first roads in human history..

Oh really!!! Please enlighten me.. let me hear more about your stupidity

A lot of people will enter middle class as India develops and manufactures more and more arms in its own factories.

Thanks for your concerns though. Logic although is missing in your argument.

Out of the 7 nation only 2 can make engine for next gen Planes.

Russian/chineese jets are very inefficient, have low lifespan and suffer for improper combustion.

French have made good engine but they still not capable of producing 5th gen jets

UK,USA can make good engine due to rolls Royce and P&W

There aren't any other countries capable of making good jet engine

>India is in neither of those groups

I never said india was capable of producing 5th gen jet engine. But india has made its own jet engine which is the Kaveri engine

https://youtu.be/ittfy-LcFvU

Sunk nuclear submarine!!!! Are you American? 😂😂😂

It is already doing enough work on those

Poverty isn't defined by castes as you'd like to think. Maybe you can look up this topic in more detail.

Well, jerund has what they need. Everyone else can go fuck themselves. This is america, after all

Alright then let me clarify:

There is no such thing as a next gen engine. They are just engines. The F119 and F135 are impressive beasts. But the EJ200 has a thrust to weight in the same range. Snecma M88 is close to it. Thrust vectoring, several non 5th gen planes have such capabilities. Also 5th or 6th gen planes...claimed ones? developed ones? claimed to be developed ones? If we are talking about the latter then shooot we have many of those, even former Yugoslavia claimed to have developed a stealth fighter.

Calling out certain brands also makes little sense since most NATO members and NATO alies are codeveloping engines now a days. EJ200 was British/German/Italian/Spanish companies co-developing it. F136 upgrade to P-W F135 was a G-E/Rolls Royce co-development.

Japan has co-developed with G-E to produce their next engine for their sixt gen fighter. Their current F-2 [a home made F-16 upgrade under licence] uses a home built and upgraded F110.

No idea where China stole it's designs, but they did upgrade them past what they were.

The indian engine has been in a test/research stage for ages and will continue to be in a test research/stage for at least a decade or two.

>There is no such thing as a next gen engine.

The , next gen jet engine have stealth feature and also engine with adaptive cycle are under development.

>Also 5th or 6th gen planes...claimed ones? developed ones? claimed to be developed ones? If we are talking about the latter then shooot we have many of those, even former Yugoslavia claimed to have developed a stealth fighter.

I am talking about jet engine not planes

>Calling out certain brands also makes little sense since most NATO members and NATO alies are codeveloping engines now a days. EJ200 was British/German/Italian/Spanish companies co-developing it. F136 upgrade to P-W F135 was a G-E/Rolls Royce co-development.

Most of the development was still done my one of 2 Major countries so it does makes sense

>No idea where China stole it's designs, but they did upgrade them past what they were.

Chinese engine are very similar to Russian ones and they also took the same approach of upscaling engine like Russian which caused it to be very inefficient

>The indian engine has been in a test/research stage for ages and will continue to be in a test research/stage for at least a decade or two.

No, it just completed its test with new core recently in russia and it's dry variant will be uses in the Ghatak UCAV by 2024-2026

And if u just count making engine , then india has been making engine for su-30mki and Mirage 2000 from scratch for quiet a while

Also india is working in co-development with saffran or Rolls-Royce to develop a new 140kn engine

It pays a portion sure, but it is far less than it used to be. When you consider the evolution of the system for the past 50 years, the writing is on the wall. Profit driven Healthcare as we know in the US will end. It is simply inefficient at doing the job it is supposed to be doing, much as how planned economies always fail for performing much the same way. Question is how.

If it is going to follow out approach to decarbonization, it will be maintained at ever increasing cost until finally someone finds a better way or reality crushes it all like a tin can at depth. People will wonder, point fingers, and blame some outside source. In truth, it's all because we as Americans are lazy proud ass holes who seem to enjoy being repeatedly anally raped by guys in suits because anything less is socialism that is somehow and intrinsically un-American. Americans are inept idiots with barely enough competent people around them to hold it all together.

It's hilarious how people used to hold up the ideal of the industrialist hero who made a fortune making the world work. In reality, the true force was all those lower than dirt people toiling away their lives. They are the ones who made America. All the names you hear, they are all filthy thieves. Should be a wall of shame. No, America celebrates the con artists who do shit but receive all the benefit. Fucking joke.

Don't you think it's hypocritical to complain about US defense spending then expect the US to use said big military to support you when the bad guys come knocking at your door?

You're Canadian. You don't have to spend on defense because the implicit threat of the US.

One hill I'm willing to die on is that trickle down economics just straight up doesn't work. I don't think investing in weapons manufacturing programs is the way to fix the level of poverty India was thrown into after what the English did to them. You need a more direct approach. The money needs to go towards sanitation, feeding the hungry, education. There are people who live worse than wild animals down the street from mansions full expensive b.s. I think that's wrong and humans have an obligation to not let entire populations of people living in filth and garbage.

I don’t know dude! Whenever there’s a picture of Chinese fighter jets j-20, you’ll find that the comment sections are full of Indians mocking it by labelling it a rip off. But when the same rip off is label is applied to Indian jets you Indians can’t bear it lol.

Guess again, chump

Put something up in the air against it and we will see how good it is

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You'd run out of money before you can get yours to the frontlines

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Worse than wild animals 😂

Capital investments are need of the hour and I am glad the government is investing in it big time. This is in turn going to generate meaningful employment.

This is very different from the tax breaks, make rich people pay less tax "trickle down economics" approach that you're familiar in the west.

You should already know that the banking system in India is a generation ahead of the west. You should see how it is helping small businesses. If we were doing what you said we should be doing, we'd be nowhere.

Thanks for the advice, but no thanks.

Buddy, countries make those aircraft so that other countries know they have them and will be less likely to attack them given their capabilities. No one likes hearing the dollar amount the US spends on its defense budget but that's what also keeps the enemy from engaging us in a full blown war.

When a system that works gets put in place it usually sticks. Social Security was deemed to be Socialist and in a way it is but no one wants to get rid of it who wants to live. Same will go for healthcare when it finally goes one payer.

You spend more on defence than the next 10 countries combined. You could reduce your military budget by 75%, give your citizens a better life, and still kick the shit out of any country that started trouble.

And honestly, when was the last time you had to defend against a large scale threat? All your military has done lately is destabilize the Mid East based on a bunch of lies cooked up by the Bush administration. Sure Hussein was a shithead, but he wasn’t a nuclear threat. Oh and you got your ass kicked by a bunch of cave dwelling theocrats in Afghanistan. Money well spent.

You wanna fight a real threat to the world? Put your military up against climate change. Oh wait they’re too busy killing whoever happens to live atop the oil your politicians are entitled to.

Gimme a fucking break with this military circle jerk nonsense.

Well apart from USA, china and Russia none have 5th gen aircraft and the russian one is hardly 5th gen.

Have you seen how India looked in 1990 compared to the US in 1990?

NASA ripped plenty off the Nazis after WW2.

And politicians saber-rattling over national pride. But even chimps go to war. That doesn't mean that therefore we should go to war too, just that it wasn't invented by a businessman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

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There are many lower castes that are rich and upper castes that are poor.

Caste is not tied to economic success. It is tied to social and cultural heritage, history and communities.

To the non-Indian friends this is an India specific article, that's why "we" is used in the title :)

LMAO you didn't even answer my question.

Your country's foreign policy relies on a strong US military. So does Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, and all of western Europe. You and almost all of the western European countries underspend on your military to an extent where you're completely reliant on the US if you get into a war.

Where do you get off sitting on your high horse criticizing US military spending when a large part of the reason your spending is so low is because ours is so high?

Also if you think the US could reduce military spending by 75 percent without Russia and China making significant moves you're fucking delusional.

> People that downvote a post that is anti-theft are probably thieves. You must all work at one of those online scam centers or steal from tourists just to survive. Either way, you're all pathetic excuses for human beings. I hope you eventually lose more than you steal or end up in prison with the rest of the evil people of the world.

That must be the most impassioned defense of patents I've seen in my life. If you do it for free and are not a paid astroturfer you are wasting your talent. Seriously, if you're good at something don't do it for free. Go and get paid, buddy.

I don't think you understand what trickle down economics means.

Kaveri engine is still being developed.p The link you provided is a 12 year old video India still imports for LCA.

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Kaberi recently completed its test in russia with sucessful core

Why would you argue against nationalism?

Where will it be used?

A more recent article https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/economy-policy/indigenising-gas-turbine-engines-a-strategic-necessity-could-save-rs-3-trn-122090800036_1.html

Ghatak stealth UCAV

So can't reverse engineer ge engine and use it for fighter.

India has been making engine for su-30mki and Mirage 2000 for quiet a while. If copying it would be possible it would have been done

Really? They are manufacturing these planes with kits provided by Russia and France. Recently the technology transfer may have happened. Can you point out where and when they did this?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2022/09/14/industry-exercise-finds-india-underestimated-future-engine-demand/#:~:text=India%20presently%20lacks%20a%20dedicated,produce%20an%20indigenous%20jet%20engine.

Hal has been making al-31 engine from scratch for quiet a while

Just five years ago with technology transfer from Russia. 2017. Not quite a while Whereas kaveri is 27 years in development.

If it has then ask yourself why are we importing engines for LCA?

There is lot of misinformation in India and the negative news are rarely reported, so people think we're are doing great, but the devil is in the details

>If it has then ask yourself why are we importing engines for LCA?

Al-31 would be overkill for Tejas

It’s amazing how deeply you are propagandized.

China doesn’t need to make moves with their military. Your country is in their pocket. They say jump you say how high. Anything else is just empty posturing. And Russia hasn’t been a real threat since the Cold War. They’re can’t even easily win a conflict against Ukraine. They’d be no match for 1/10th of your military.

You under estimate your allies, overestimate your enemies, and GREATLY over value the need for America to police the world. China literally just slapped your wrist about Taiwan.

Every country you listed sees you as a fucking joke. Not our great saviour. You are the one who is delusional. And it’s costing you and your fellow Americans a better life. Go back to school you fucking simpleton.

No they absolutely them need with the inevitable water wars between India, China and Pakistan. I think its a foregone conclusion at this point, desal won't be able to get freshwater for so many billions.

Need to buff military to stake claims on whatever freshwater sources remain. Without water you die quick, without what you described life is simply shitty.

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Ah got it. We created a better engine in 4 years, but the smaller engine we don't care so we are importing it after failing for 27 years.

This is why east or west India is the best.

Al-31 is not a efficient or long lasting engine as it's based of Russia design and that's why it isn't used in anything but su-30mki.

Also al-31 can't fit in tejas or tejas mk2 as it's crazy big and modifing the to get al-31 engine would be same as making a new jet from scratch

Also the ip right to al-31 are still with russia and we can't copy or modify it without their permission

India needs a 130kn class engine which which is going to be declared in partnership with uk or france and will be used on amca.

I suggest u stop talking if u don't know full facts. U are making yourself look dumb

I have been following this since you were a baby and when you are my age you will get some sense knocked in to you.

India cannot do some things which is why it is partnering. Time is running out and progress is very less. Read the link that I posted. It is a recent assessment of where we are, not some 2017 article.

You have been following this for decades but still didn't knew al-31 couldn't be fit into tejas?

Go talk to someone in HAL or IAF. Go find out why India invested in Kaveri?

Thrust to weight ratio, baby

You know the worst type of idiots are the ones who think they're smarter than everyone else. I'm sorry your degree didn't help out in that regard.

GTRE is responsible for Kaveri not HAL, kaveri was originally made for LCA Tejas but to to delay ti was split for tejas program

I worked at GEAE in 1995.

And u still didn't know this, demn that's embarassing

It's more due to al-31 wouldn't even fit inside tejas

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They can do both, you know.

Still caste would be a good predictor of wealth, I reckon.

You would reckon wrong then…

There are plenty of Brahmins (highest caste) that are poor and plenty of Dalits that are rich (lowest caste).

The highest caste Brahmins are generally not the wealthiest caste either. They are just more well regarded in traditional society. Historically Brahmins have been poor and had very austere and spartan lives.

Brahmin priest for example only get paid 300 rupees a month ($4 USD). Which is close to poverty line in india.

The idea that “high class means wealthy” is a western notion.

He said "one of", and let's not act like Germany's highway infrastructure was their priority around the 1930s and 40s

That's an insanely misleading example since the priest caste there is supposed to live frugally.

It'd be much more telling if there was no correlation among wealth for castes in general rather than pointing out the priests live frugally and that there are outliers in any lower caste

What is your definition of upper caste and lower caste then?

Normally people just go with the two poles, dalits and Brahmins

And assume the priest class in Europe is analogous the Brahmin caste/Varna in india (it’s not as Brahmins are obligated to live modestly and donate excess wealth and assets)

The wealthiest varnas will likely be merchants, traders, artisans and rulers

Vasiya, shudra, Kshatriyas

But that is a huge group to generalise.

Until recently, exorbitant wealth acquisition was looked down upon and treated as a moral hazard in society as it is adharmic

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Yer, but are you fully sure there was no businessChimp involved.

As chimps went to space before humans, who knows what they are capable of.

I mean, the F-35 is a 5th generation fighter, and though it's US made, it is available to all Nato Allies, and several countries that aren't even in Nato.

It doesn't quite hold up to the F-22, but it is still a capable 5th gen fighter.

And the the Su-57 is questionable as to whether or not it counts as 5th generation. It's built according to 4th generation strategy, but it's definitely a far more advanced fighter than any 4th generation fighter. It does have some stealth and 5th generation design concepts, it just prioritizes dog fighting and maneuverability. There is still some debate on whether at a certain degree of large scale aerial combat it could become a superior fighter, but this is appearing less and less likely.

Also 6th generation fighters are already far closer than most people realize. Japan should have their first prototype F-3 in 2024, and China and US are both on similar timelines.