noelcowardspeaksout t1_irx3ka1 wrote on October 11, 2022 at 6:09 PM

Reply to comment by Somhlth in China’s Electric Trucks May Well Pull Forward Peak Oil Demand by PeteWenzel

Interesting. I thought Hydrogen was slated to be the most economic power source for trucks - but I suppose the tech for EV's is a lot simpler and that it is much easier to mass produce and roll out at this early stage. Anyhow whatever wins in the long run it's good to see.

It now costs $1000 dollars to fill up a trailer truck in the US - so I can imagine the electric drive trains won't take long to pay for themselves.

It's good to see US solar slated to ramp up so much, just in time for this transformation in the haulage industry.

Shot-Job-8841 t1_irx9qh3 wrote on October 11, 2022 at 6:48 PM

The issue for hydrogen right now is the cost of green hydrogen. No one wants to use green hydrogen if it’s more expensive than gas, since a HFCEV costs more than an ICE vehicle. And there’s no point to grey hydrogen since it’s dirty and harder to transport than oil. Once we have green hydrogen at parity with fossil fuels, then you’ll start to see some changes, bot before then.

geon2k2 t1_is0au1v wrote on October 12, 2022 at 11:25 AM

Correct. Hydrogen will become a thing once we have excess electricity, maybe from solar, or maybe that high temperature reactor prototype will eventually fly off. But we are looking at a decade or so until it could become viable and widespread. Sure pioneers and prototypes are welcome in the meantime.

GoinPuffinBlowin t1_iryodt8 wrote on October 12, 2022 at 12:43 AM

Hydrogen is fueled as ammonia. EV's are aimed at consumer level vehicles and short trip vehicles. Without huge breakthroughs in charging, capacity, and weight reduction, battery powered will not be suitable for anything long haul like big ships, trains, planes, and semi trucks. The vehicle landscape will look very different in 5 years

Shot-Job-8841 t1_iryzlwp wrote on October 12, 2022 at 2:09 AM

As far as I am aware, ammonia production uses hydrogen as a reactant. Meaning that the cost of green hydrogen is relevant to ammonia being used as an energy source.

GoinPuffinBlowin t1_is86q37 wrote on October 14, 2022 at 12:23 AM

I don't know what that has to do with what I said. I said EV's aren't a solution to big business or big shipping, and you went all in on one sentence, ignoring the point of the post. You said no one wants to use green hydrogen, and I said the biggest companies in the world are actively researching how they can utilize hydrogen fuel instead of batteries. I guess "no one" didn't include companies like Caterpillar, Amtrak, Boeing, GE, and Toyota/BMW?

Edit: of course you downvote me because you disagree. You don't understand that the arrows are meant to encourage discussion, not silence dissenting opinions. On the note of opinions, I am a chemical engineer for DOW, working on alternative fuels. I can tell you with absolute certainty that your opinion is wrong. Uniformed at the best, and willfully ignorant at worst.

The production of ammonia, whether you believe it to be "green" or not, is far less damaging to the environment than mining precious metals. The industry already has solutions that I can't openly discuss, but if you read anything beyond Elon Musk's tweets you'd know BP and FS are building their ammonia pipelines as we speak because hydrogen, not batteries, is the future

Shot-Job-8841 t1_is8yvlc wrote on October 14, 2022 at 4:07 AM

Those companies are mostly using grey and blue hydrogen, because it’s 𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗹𝘆 much more cost effective.

You mentioned ammonia and I responded that ammonia production usually requires you to produce hydrogen first.