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bearjew64 OP t1_iqym6z9 wrote

The basic idea: some energy technologies seem to have “learning curves,” where manufacturers get better at producing the more they make and it drives prices down. Solar and wind seem to have nice learning curves, which has driven down prices; nuclear does not, and neither do fossil fuels.

Does green hydrogen? The answer appears to be yes, and that has the potential to “fill in the gaps” where we need a source of stable energy to cover for solar or wind when the sun is down and the breeze is light.

And green hydrogen is actually green. It involves using clean energy to electrolyze water to generate carbon-free hydrogen.

I’ll be honest, I loved the optimism here!

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ComputersWantMeDead t1_iqyrs0k wrote

Reading that, it seems like it has a future, once we already have a surplus of energy to create it outside of the fossil fuel industry.

It does seem a bit pessimistic to write it off, just because we currently struggle with production and storage. Will be an interesting space to watch.

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FrolfLarper t1_ir2dlxd wrote

I read something recently about some startups that were taking CO2 and hydrogen and processing them into liquid fuels. Obviously that adds cost but would be much easier to handle. Even just going to methane would make it a lot easier to use with existing infrastructure.

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ComputersWantMeDead t1_ir2stir wrote

Yeah I can't see how, with current technology, hydrogen will ever be something we would seek to expand current usage.

But who knows. Maybe some metamaterials will make production, storage and transport easier.

I'm always interested in the technology that replicates photosynthesis - basically using quantum mechanics principles to split water. That could potentially change the equation on production if that process continues to improve.

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HikeyBoi t1_ir11i2m wrote

Production of hydrogen is pretty well tied to solar production which is getting big (United States perspective). Couple that with the recent proliferation of natural gas turbines that are compatible with hydrogen blends. All that’s really missing is some minor Infrastructure at power plants and major national hub style geologic storage facilities tied into existing fuel pipelines.

I see this coming soon as a stepping stone to less reliance on fossil fuels. I am interested in other peoples thoughts too.

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LazyClub8 t1_iqz23uv wrote

I don’t know if it’s totally dead in the automotive sector either, the Hyundai N Vision 74 for instance has both a hydrogen fuel cell AND a battery. That was a pretty cool solution IMO since you have them both offsetting the weaknesses of the other. Might be a bit pricier in a consumer vehicle, I’m not sure, but pretty cool idea anyways.

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Collective82 t1_iqyye67 wrote

Nuclear’s big problem is everything is custom and not mass produced.

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DynamicResonater t1_ir3eccp wrote

>Filling in the gaps

Yes, that's exactly my thoughts. Some examples are long-haul freight trucks and locomotives that travel from hub to hub where H2 infrastructure could be readily installed and likely cost effective. I'm looking at Tesla's semi and thinking an H2 fuel cell range extender would be the ticket to cross country hauling for such a rig.

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valleyof-the-shadow t1_iqypnhs wrote

Small scale storage solutions would be helpful. It’s easy enough to produce hydrogen.

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HikeyBoi t1_ir0y71y wrote

I think large scale storage such as geologic storage is key and can be connected to existing infrastructure via existing pipeline infrastructure.

Why would small scale storage be helpful in your opinion?

Hydrogen is not very energy dense and while it can be compressed well, there is some hesitation proliferating small scale compressed gas energy solutions on a national level. Until solid state (adsorbed) storage becomes a more viable option, I think I’ll continue to support large scale hydrogen projects over smaller ones (though I support energy diversification).

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valleyof-the-shadow t1_ir5fcdj wrote

I’m thinking self sufficiency not corporate global resource control. Solar and hydrogen in the sunny north would be useful to homesteads with all the snow to electrolyze.

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HikeyBoi t1_ir5for4 wrote

Ahh okay I see. I was imagining societal scale as I have no means to obtain this equipment myself.

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valleyof-the-shadow t1_ir5i5jt wrote

Yeah you do. I have used a plastic bag to hold the hydrogen I made with my car battery, a glass jar, wire and salt water. That it. Not safe, that’s why I’m looking.

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HikeyBoi t1_ir5jk9y wrote

I am not interested in a demonstration, that is well within my means and I have had my fair share of fun igniting hydrogen. I mean I do not have the means to obtain a self sufficient energy grid which uses hydrogen for chemical energy storage. I would need solar or other production capabilities and a battery to make it worthwhile, and then all the hydrogen equipment. And by equipment I mean a somewhat efficient electrolyzer and gas handling systems with a compressor and storage tank. without that stuff, I think it’s more of a demonstration that fire can be made from water.

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valleyof-the-shadow t1_ir5nkq6 wrote

Like this? https://www.homepowersolutions.de/en

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HikeyBoi t1_ir63u55 wrote

Yes, that looks like the sort of system I described.

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valleyof-the-shadow t1_ir6fca6 wrote

Then I Guess hydrogen is good for making fire from water as you say. There are other systems that already exist and have been around since the 70s but this one looks ready finally.

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bernpfenn t1_iqzlo4p wrote

Hydrogens problem is storage. It passes through most materials because of its tiny molecular structure. Even nano bubble hydrogen does not stay longer than 24 hours in water.

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eddieguy t1_ir1p8ee wrote

Tip: Ammonia as a transporter of hydrogen

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megaman821 t1_ir20zk8 wrote

The question is, what is the round-trip efficiency of ammonia, methanol or methane? If we need 500% production in the sunny season to produce the fuel we need for winter, that seems like a steep hill to climb.

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HikeyBoi t1_ir0x8ah wrote

It seems the author is blending learning curves and economies of scale.

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FuturologyBot t1_iqynnp2 wrote

The following submission statement was provided by /u/bearjew64:

The basic idea: some energy technologies seem to have “learning curves,” where manufacturers get better at producing the more they make and it drives prices down. Solar and wind seem to have nice learning curves, which has driven down prices; nuclear does not, and neither do fossil fuels.

Does green hydrogen? The answer appears to be yes, and that has the potential to “fill in the gaps” where we need a source of stable energy to cover for solar or wind when the sun is down and the breeze is light.

And green hydrogen is actually green. It involves using clean energy to electrolyze water to generate carbon-free hydrogen.

I’ll be honest, I loved the optimism here!

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xv0yut/i_come_bringing_good_news_about_hydrogen/iqym6z9/

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