What countries/regions currently have *good* projected futures?

Submitted by Murein t3_11mu9q7 in Futurology

I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

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With the US diminishing on the world stage (Ukraine conflict notwithstanding) and facing growing domestic difficulties, politically, economically and environmentally, I strongly fear that it won't be a pleasant nation to live in within 5-10 years. And that's not even discussing what could happen if it devolves into a dictatorship or civil war, both of which seem exponentially more likely now than 10 years ago.

The same goes for Russia and China where the demographics and economy are on track to catastrophically fail on a level where the state won't be able to suppress the chaos. For Russia moreso than China, but both nations have this looming over them.

The UK is seeing poverty rising at unprecedented rates while their economy is contracting almost as much as Russia, forecasted to be overtaken by Poland by 2030. Politicians openly discussing withdrawing from the European Convention on Human rights which, combined with growing poverty and dissatisfaction, opens all kinds of pandora's boxes.

The EU as a whole is also in serious trouble economically even if the impact won't be as rough as in the UK. Global warming will hit several central/western european countries *hard* if the past 5 years are anything to go by.

Ponder that you're an english speaking high skilled worker with liberal values and no family to worry about. You may or may not belong to any minorities/have disabilities. Where do you go if you want to live in a place where you can be sure that your quality of life and political situation won't see a serious risk of rapid deterioration in the coming 10-20 years?

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Lahm0123 t1_jbjougu wrote

I think you are letting the things you read on the internet affect you too much.

The reality is that nowhere is completely safe. Instead of trying to run away we would all be better off trying to make our home countries better as best we can.

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mf279801 t1_jbjtro8 wrote

Life is basically as good as it’s ever been in recorded history, significantly better than it was 100 or even 50 years ago, and getting better at an accelerating rate. (Because it’s the internet i want to clarify that i say that completely without sarcasm)

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Lahm0123 t1_jbjz5sr wrote

Agreed.

Objectively almost every metric is better. Some significantly better.

Subjective fear mongering attracts views and clicks though. We all need to be cognizant of that fact.

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Notyit t1_jbmdl3e wrote

Yeah I'd rather not live in Ukraine or places which have high crime rates.

Sounds like you never lived abroad.

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Hizjyayvu t1_jbjmyxb wrote

I feel pretty good about living in Canada. The temperature is usually memed on but it will become more temperate with climate change (a depressing win on that one). Our democracy isn't perfect but it's one of the best in the world. And the only danger we are in under the american military umbrella is the US itself - so in an instance where USA becomes so fucking wild that they're invading Canada then literally nowhere on earth is safe at that point I imagine.

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Murein OP t1_jbjnlzg wrote

Yeah, I was considering Canada a lot in my own ponderings. Bottom line I think would be two things in a hypothethical US going completely off the rails scenario:

  • Does the US balkanize and/or wear itself down following a very possible civil war?
  • Does right wing authoritarianism get exported to Canada to the point where democracy is eroded there?
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Hizjyayvu t1_jbjpgl3 wrote

A psychological / idealogical ultimatum from the States is the most likely scenario that would compromise Canada's well being in my opinion. As opposed to all out warfare. Their right wing emboldens our own, which is concerning. But, again, if the US pulls a card like that then Central America is next and then the whole planet.

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Opizze t1_jbju7x3 wrote

Study the fall of the Roman Empire if you want an answer to that.

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbkl6hh wrote

The roman empire and america is like comparing a horse to a car.

According to right wingers, hedonism is the cause of the roman empire falling.

America should have collapsed when it fought a war vs slavery. Abolishing slavery was an act of hedonism.

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Opizze t1_jbklhj3 wrote

The Roman Empire fell over centuries for a multitude of reasons, some of which, however, we are seeing as similarities in the good ole American Empire. It’s not as far off as you make it seem, but given the minuscule amount of time we’ve existed by comparison it’s not a perfect comparison. I mean we did base a lot of our ideas off of the Romans

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbkoqc9 wrote

Calling america an empire is wrong.

Clasical empires worked differently. All issues nowadays are the cause of capitalism combined with geopolitical meddling and Standards of livimf and wars.

America is in decline for no related reason compared to the roman empire.

Most people complain about the cost of living. Thats an issue even in russia and china.

Crime? Also present elsewhere.

Nationalism? Also present in china and russia.

Its not the america just in decline but the world economy. Capitalism is in decline.

The roman empire fell because of extreme issues and threats both within and externally. Not because owning slaves or some demographic issue.

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Opizze t1_jbksk3v wrote

The Roman Empire fell also in part because it’s people stopped giving a shit, they stopped being patriots, they stopped fighting for themselves and for the idea of Rome as an empire. They became divided based on one man seeking ultimate power; essentially the people at the top stopped caring about empire and shifted only to caring about their own power, with some notable exceptions.

At various points plague and war reduced the available labor and soldiers, slaves ruined the economy for Romans at home because of selfish rich people seeking only the next dollar, and yes, various external threats converged at one time or another to sap Roman strength again and again.

The Romans at various points were overexteneded, with Hadrian, and also Augustus before him, trying to redefine defensible frontiers for the empire. You’re right in that this is not the same for America because it’s not outright hegemony, we have allies, but ofcourse our Allie’s spend a hell of a lot less on their militaries than we do. They rely on us marching and sailing around to put out the various fires around the world.

The economic similarities at home, however, with selfish rich fucks who are allowed to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else, is actually similar, though not for exactly the same reasons. There’s no slaves in America anymore, so rich people use different mechanisms to achieve the same end, but the greed is exactly the same, and people in power either not giving a shit, joining in on it, or assisting in the redistribution of wealth is similar to what happened in Rome.

Rome had emperors who at times were sons of other emperors or, at their best, were men of merit selected by previous emperors or, at their worst, were selfish generals, or high ranking government officials that were selfishly seeking power. Some of them weren’t completely corrupt, some of them were. You know anyone like that who assumed the most powerful position of the most powerful country in the world? The Presidency of the United States is nowhere near the same, but the general similarities are there. It IS enough to make some comparisons.

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbkkq8o wrote

Canada would collapse along with the US ina societ style collaose.

Remember, when the soviet union collapsed, it generated wars along its borders and allies. But the US collapsing would be a short livrd matter. A country with a storng military can stabilize quickly.

The US military could eleminate destablizing figures if ghey wanted to,like they did during Obamas presidency with muslim/arab americans in the middle east.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbjwoor wrote

There is no possibility of a civil war, any suggestion otherwise is either foreign propaganda or right wing propaganda.

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Surur t1_jbke52b wrote

The coup attempt was also made up /s

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbklrt8 wrote

The January 6 thing was a meme. In eastern europe, we get stuff like this every year.

In the worst case scensrio, america turns into myanmar and bombs who ever is against the military. A military dictatorship.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbkfapc wrote

Germany also had a coup attempt recently, but it doesn't mean anything.

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Surur t1_jbkfov0 wrote

> Germany also had a coup attempt

Not quite the same, is it.

> On 7 December 2022, 25 members of a suspected far-right terrorist group were arrested for allegedly planning a coup d'état in Germany. The group, called Patriotic Union (German: Patriotische Union), which was led by a Council (German: Rat), was a part of the German far-right extremist Reichsbürger movement.

25 people vs half of the country and the outgoing president.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbkg2gz wrote

25 weirdos vs. A few thousand weirdos. It's only the scale that's different.

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nocksers t1_jbl7ut4 wrote

I live in western New York (just on the other side of lake Ontario from the Toronto area), most of those "where will be the best places to live when the climate changes" click bait articles list here. We'll get less snow. Might get slightly more under-boob sweat in the summers, but cataclysmic climate emergencies are pretty unlikely here.

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CalifaDaze t1_jbmqwsb wrote

Wasn't there a once in a century storm a few months ago that killed people there ?

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jar1967 t1_jbklrrb wrote

If things go bad in the United States expect a lot of the best and brightest to try to immigrate to Canada. They would be a welcome edition

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Singular_Lens_37 t1_jbjng5l wrote

I've heard that property values are rising precipitously in New Zealand precisely because the megarich have run the simulations and it's the safest place to be this century.

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KilgoreTroutsAnus t1_jbjo44y wrote

NZ is absurdly difficult to emigrate to, as would be almost all US alternatives.

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Singular_Lens_37 t1_jbjon3m wrote

they have a teacher shortage and will grant visas for teachers.

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BeyoncesmiddIefinger t1_jblng6n wrote

A temporary visa is not a solution for someone trying to permanently live somewhere else. That’s a temporary solution at best and even then it’s still difficult and highly competitive to get there.

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KilgoreTroutsAnus t1_jbluv9k wrote

They provide a 2-year path to permanent residency for teachers who qualify for that program

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Important_Report_859 t1_jblvyi2 wrote

Wouldn’t you have to get an NZ teaching license though? Certainly you couldn’t teach there with a US state license

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starspangledxunzi t1_jbk6mj8 wrote

Well, those playing Global Polycrisis at "Beginner Level" certainly think so. Meanwhile, Cyclone Gabrielle and the increasing seasonal floods on the South Island would both like a word...

(The megarich also think, post-"The Event," that they can control people via shock collars... As recently spotlighted by Douglas Rushkoff, the megarich are actually fuckwits, and as brutal and inhumane as they are profoundly unwise -- clever, yes, I met so many clever people when I worked in Silicon Valley, good at embracing the zeitgeist, good at making money... but clever is so very different from wise... And the rest of this century is one huge monkey trap...)

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Serious_Session7574 t1_jblsmuw wrote

Property prices are dropping now in NZ. The property bubble was not just down to the megarich, more of a supply-demand problem. Prices are still really high, but lower now than 2-3 years ago.

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b1ue_jellybean t1_jbl6lhn wrote

The reason the property values are so high is cause housing here in NZ is often a better investment than the stock market. Also best advice for coming to NZ to live, get wealthy and experienced first. Cause you’re gonna have a high cost of living here and your almost certainly gonna earn less here than you would overseas.

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Iffykindofguy t1_jbjowoi wrote

It amazes me that people in this day and age dont see this as a dumb move. People have been trying to find the "good" place to be for all of our history. We're all connected, like it or not, and if the world is suffering so will you.

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hononononoh t1_jbo068j wrote

Agreed. The premise of this question is absurd, because there are too many unknowns, and there's no such thing as complete or guaranteed safety. The best place to be is going to vary a lot based on what kind of catastrophic event happens first, how the world responds to it, and on an individual level, what sorts of hardship you're willing and able to ride out.

Even you identify some r/RemotePlaces where a person like you would thrive, and is likely to be less hard hit by any of the likely apocalyptic scenarios, the problem then becomes that you certainly won't be the only one headed there. Costs of living and competition for basic resources will skyrocket.

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Notyit t1_jbmdvwa wrote

I think you don't realise it's not normal to elect presidents like trump and raid capitals.

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KilgoreTroutsAnus t1_jbjofpf wrote

By what measure is the US diminishing? Whatever decline or challenges there may be, they are relatively small. When the US economy struggles, the ROW generally struggles more. You don't have to be faster than the bears chasing you, you just have to be faster than the other people running.

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Maurauderr t1_jbjqjqb wrote

Look at the political and social problems in the US. Trans people are being outlawed in different states, there is a huge wealth gap, a lot more police brutality than in Manny other countries, US democracy doesn't really serve the people anymore and there is a large growth in far right movements.

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khamelean t1_jbjv0um wrote

It’s very much a two step forward one step back situation. Yes, there has been some recent regression in the tolerance of trans people, but it’s still significantly more tolerant than 40 years ago. This is pretty much par for the coarse when pushing society forward. When you make a change that 90% of the population agree with, the other 10% is going to kick up a fuss.

There will always be ups and downs, but the overall trend line is undeniably positive.

I’m not sure a good argument can be made that the US is any more politically unstable than it was 50 years ago. People do tend to have short memories for the turmoil of days gone by.

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbkmuc2 wrote

Trans people being outlawed is nothing. 0.0002 of the population is nothing. 20-30 years sgo, it was taboo to be gay.

A country turning a bit conservative is not the end of the country.

The USA is a republic. I dont think they ever listened to the people. The people, especially in the US, are very dumb and uneducated.

Fsr right movements have always been a thing. I remember hoe things were in 2008 and before.

I heard about stormfront much earlier. The things are getting worse bullshit in the west prpves that democracy is a waste of time.

Its better to treat people like dumb sheep like china does and steamroll via police brute force.

The chinese arent pessimistic about the future at all. Turns out banning doomer posting works.

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KilgoreTroutsAnus t1_jbl0pvy wrote

Trans people are not outlawed. Discriminated against, not outlawed, and less than ever.

Police abuse was far worse 30 and 40 years ago, before cameras were everywhere to record it.

Far right movements are growing everywhere, not just the US.

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Murein OP t1_jbju3jx wrote

Certain states are literally having republicans legalize child labor and ban contraception while trying to ban gay marriage or simply being transgender.

Meanwhile cost of living crisis just keeps worsening. Yeah it sure is going great.

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkb8ze wrote

The legalizing child labor and banning contraception parts I need proof of. The US still has a shit ton of influence globally with an insane economy to match

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Murein OP t1_jbkc73l wrote

*"In Iowa, Republican legislators introduced a bill in January to expand the types of work 14- and 15-year-olds would be permitted to do as part of approved training programs, extend allowable work hours, and exempt employers from liability if these young workers are sickened, injured or killed on the job."*

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/11/us-child-labor-laws-violations

*"(22) As of 2022, at least 4 States tried to ban access to some or all contraceptives by restricting access to public funding for these products and services. Furthermore, Arkansas, Mississippi, Missouri, and Texas have infringed on people’s ability to access their contraceptive care by violating the free choice of provider requirement under the Medicaid program."*

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8373/text

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These are news I stumbled upon without even really looking. And I could find the sources for you in less than 10s of googling.

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkce5s wrote

Thank you for the sources. Those are bills introduced, those aren’t policy.

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Murein OP t1_jbkcu08 wrote

What are your thoughts on the mere fact that these things *are* being introduced? And where do you see the other social policy issues I mentioned going?

I'm not trying to be combative here, I am genuinely wishing to hear more optimistic perspectives than my own.

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkczm9 wrote

I think a better way to look at it is to see how many people vote and support it.

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Murein OP t1_jbkdkoa wrote

Sure - but Roe vs Wade got overturned despite overwhelming nationwide support for abortion rights. Heck, banning abortion wasn't even an issue in elections on the federal or state level.

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Jealous-Gate6014 t1_jbmq696 wrote

I could find just as many crazy and insane bills that were introduced by liberal state governments. This is a weak attempt to paint conservatives with a broad brush. It doesn’t take much to have a bill introduced just to have it swiftly killed in committee.

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Jealous-Gate6014 t1_jbmqnkh wrote

Abortion wasn’t banned. It was returned to the state level where it should have been along. I love how you guys say “oh abortion was abolished”, no, this wasn’t even a ruling at all about abortion itself, it was a ruling on federal vs state rights. I’m not even a pro life guy, but if we are going to discuss it, let’s be honest about the facts

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkdoyr wrote

Abortion is a different topic, stop moving the goalposts

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Murein OP t1_jbkdu3n wrote

Does the topic even matter when we're discussing how public opinion can be blatantly overrun?

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkdzss wrote

You brought up something specific, abortion pushback has been massive, but I am not here to talk about that.

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Murein OP t1_jbke3lh wrote

Yeah and see how much that pushback has helped?

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbke9cf wrote

I believe in Kansas they voted on it and kept it, local action is important

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Murein OP t1_jbkedp8 wrote

I'm gonna need a source on that being a grassroots win

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WalterWoodiaz t1_jbkeqms wrote

Grassroots? It was a popular vote. US politics is very dependent on the state so painting the US as going to shit is oversimplifying an incredibly complex country

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Ginger_Boi000 t1_jbms3e8 wrote

Iowa Pop - 3.1 mil

USA pop - 331 pop.

Plz do math next time. Who gives a FLYING FUCK about Iowa???

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spinyfur t1_jbkwnqr wrote

However, loved experience in the US will very much depend on which state you live in.

For example: several conservative states have been passing bans on abortion, meanwhile liberal states have been passing laws guaranteeing the right to an abortion.

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Murein OP t1_jbl0sfk wrote

What happens if senate and WH get taken by a republican next election? Federal bans on abortion and being gay/trans? Do the policies even stay in the US or would the leader of the free world export them by any means necessary?

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spinyfur t1_jbl83bt wrote

I think that’s very unlikely. No democrat would agree to a federal law banning abortion, which means 100% of the Republicans would have to agree to that ban, which would be wildly unpopular in many of their states.

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Ginger_Boi000 t1_jbmrvc4 wrote

Touch grass. Trans rights doesn't effect 99.99% of people in America and 99.99999999% of the world. State one single fact about a policy change from the past 40 years (post Soviet collapse) that indicates American hegemony retraction from the global stage.

I swear to god these fucking European retards got so much hubris that I'm starting to think Dresden was America's greatest achievement.

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TheSensibleTurk t1_jbksbzw wrote

Neither the US nor the world order that the US heralded in 1951 are diminishing.

What makes America desirable to tens of millions of immigrants and millions of visitor students who are waiting in line?

It's civil and civic values. A freer society leads to a better system of social cohesion (try being a black man in China or Russia). America by no means is a utopia, but it remains the top destination because it allows you to live a relatively free life vs the alternatives.

America has checks and balances, division of power in government, and a balancing of populism vs technocracy. We'll talk about Balkanization or civil war when the filibuster rule is amended.

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Notyit t1_jbmdsid wrote

People go to USA because they want to go where all the big business and tech slash science is

No one thinks politically it's a great place

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Easy_Jux t1_jbpymki wrote

Didn’t a large number of Cubans migrate to the states specifically because they thought it would be better politically?

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hononononoh t1_jbo0m49 wrote

The USA is peerless as a place to be rich. It's an increasingly hellish place to be poor.

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Binkythedestructor t1_jbmiyuu wrote

There is always a fine line between reality and marketing.

While it is undoubtedly true that the US had these things; checks and balances only work when they are exercised - and there is less evidence that is occurring. So in real terms, I think there is diminishment.

I agree in principle with all of your points. The fact that the world is not static makes it interesting

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Exotic_District_4657 t1_jbjtz8s wrote

Idk, I think the concern over the US demise is greatly exaggerated. If you look at demographics, which is going to be what wrecks most industrialized countries in the coming decades, we’re going to be fine.

We are also completely food and energy secure, which is even more important than demographics. Many nations can’t boast this.

Yeah we have our political issues. But the thought that we’re more divided now than in the 1960s is laughable. Most of it is online and perpetuated by bloviating talking heads. Rise of radical political movements that are armed and angry? Sure. Is that bad? 100%. Has this been an issue before? Absolutely.

Also the US can’t really Balkanize at this point. Not like we could 100 years ago. The divide isn’t north vs. South, it’s rural vs. urban. This issue touches every state. You walk out side of NYC, you’re in GOP land. Set foot in Milwaukee Minnesota, you might as well be in a frigid LA.

I’m convinced that most people that are calling for or are worried about a civil war are terminally online or LARPing.

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UncreativeIndieDev t1_jbjx5y4 wrote

I'm less concerned for a civil war akin to the one in our past between two formal states and armies, and instead more concerned about increased political violence and domestic terror groups. We already have severe issues with mass shootings and have seen increases in politically motivated attacks (e.g. Jan 6, the attack on the Pelosis, attacks on LGBTQ+ venues, etc.) and, what I find especially worrying, a lack of serious criticism and opposition from our politicians. Republicans often ignore or even justify many of these attacks (as by and large most are perpetrated by right-wing actors), such as with them making fun of the attack on the Pelosis and making up a conspiracy theory about it being a homosexual affair, and while Democrats have criticized these attacks, little is done to actual go after the political agitators causing them. Moreover, wider language regarding political violence has also become more extremist as at a recent CPAC, a prominent conservative (I believe it was Michael Knowles) went on stage and called for the "eradication" of the transgender community and has since defended himself by arguing he can't genocide transgender "people" if they aren't actually a group of people. This has come with little-to-no opposition from conservatives despite this language dehumanizing and practically calling for violence against transgender people.

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Murein OP t1_jbjupjx wrote

Sure, but what if the next government is authoritarian fascist and forces even the most liberal states and areas to comply with things such as abortion bans, don't say gay et cetera? I frankly don't think this can be dismissed.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbjxdjy wrote

First, America can't have a "fascist" government, and a party like the Republicans are typical in all but Western Europe. Second, any left wing revolt against a right wing government would hardly get off the ground, because the military will just side with whoever is president currently.

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Murein OP t1_jbjz89a wrote

Why can't America have a "fascist" government?

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NoRich4088 t1_jbk0kf6 wrote

Because we are a strong democracy, worse we could possibly get is a slightly authoritarian democracy, so basically just a slightly worse Trump.

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ThomasMaxwell2501 t1_jbk8kfo wrote

You seem overly confident in our democracy. America could very well gain an authoritarian government, but it would ultimately be incompetent and ineffective. The military simply does not have the manpower to secure and control the entire country (people underestimate just how big USA actually is in terms of landmass and population), so the successful enforcement of said authoritarian government would be nearly impossible; to revolt and disobey such a regime would probably be fairly simple.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbkex7u wrote

We've had some form of democracy for nearly 250 years, I don't see us losing it anytime soon.

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ThomasMaxwell2501 t1_jbkgeiq wrote

It seems you’re using a form of induction here, as in you’re making future predictions based on past experiences. But that’s the pesky thing with induction, you never really know what the future holds. We could have some form of a working democracy for a thousand years and there would still be a chance of it disintegrating.

By the way, I don’t think it’ll dissolve anytime soon as well, the process has survived worse. But nevertheless, it is currently being tested, and there is a legitimate chance that it will fail the test this time.

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NoRich4088 t1_jbkgr2e wrote

I see your point. I just don't see any threat.

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ThomasMaxwell2501 t1_jbki1un wrote

The threat I see is the constant questioning of the process itself.

In the last few Presidential elections there has constantly been a narrative of some kind that the elected President was somehow “illegitimate”. People questioned W. Bush’s presidency because of the Supreme Court interference in Florida. People questioned Obama’s presidency because he was “born in Kenya” and therefore “not a U.S. citizen.” People questioned Trump’s presidency because of “Russian interference.” And now people question Biden’s presidency because the “election was rigged and stolen.” This constant questioning could only lead to an eventual loss of trust in the process from the general public. Democracy would inevitably dissolve after enough time passes, but not because of an authoritarian force taking it away, but because the people have become simply indifferent towards a process they don’t trust and value.

Hope I’m wrong somehow.

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OriginalCompetitive t1_jbkmtg7 wrote

The US, hands down. I have no idea what you mean by “diminishing on the world stage.”

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URF_reibeer t1_jbjqpoq wrote

scandinavian countries like norway are probably the best bet with virtually only the weather as a relevant downside for some people

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Murein OP t1_jbjqxfj wrote

I actually live in one. However it's concerning to see how we literally take after american political discourse a few years after it plays out in the US.

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prestopino t1_jbjuo9r wrote

Yeah, no country is perfect, but, by just about all metrics, Scandinavia (along with Switzerland) is probably the best place to be.

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[deleted] t1_jbk740i wrote

[deleted]

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbknl49 wrote

You mean western european. Eastern europeans dont have much luck there either.

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Test19s t1_jbo0or4 wrote

I just hope we don't return to 1930s brainrot where everyone of non-Western European descent is automatically second-class or worse a drain on finite resources.

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbo896m wrote

That really depends on politics. Im hedging my bets right now. Considering that im planning to settle in EU.

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Kiizmod0 t1_jbkd2is wrote

Sweden is a Muslim ghetto. Finland ia in the process being another Muslim hellscape. Norway shall standout.

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Surur t1_jbkfem2 wrote

Surely the guys at /r/collapse have this all worked out already. It's all they think about.

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MammothTankDriver t1_jbkjfpn wrote

I would say Vietnam, Thailand. In europe, Switzerland, Austria. America itself would be safe because the civil war talk is just insanity. The federal goverment is strong enough to survive anything domestically. Even state goverments there are good enoigh for that. But in case of a coup de etat, eith the militsry being involved, it eould be a short aventure for the coup people.

Also, the demographics of russia and china are hugely overblown to be negative. A demographic issue can be solved by migrant workers or debt.

Japan choose debt. Some western countries chose migrants.

Russia is also attractive as a place to migrate to. All russia needs to do is liberalize the admission process. But most conservstive places want to avoid migrants, due to nationalist sentiments.

Dont be too negative on the future. The world has neen on the brink of the apocalypse since Christ. Its also quite odd for this subreddit to have doomers.

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Negative_Leek_6842 t1_jbl4dt6 wrote

It’s nice to hear some optimism but US Civil War talk is not insanity. We have one of the two main political parties favoring Christian Nationalism and scoffing at the rule of law. They have already installed a kangaroo court, control many state governments, and have attempted to overturn an election. Trump was an egotistical idiot. We might not be so lucky with the next Republican in power.

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jjanelle99 t1_jblfhkx wrote

If you believe the checks and balances ou Forefather's put into place are still valid you need only look at Supreme Court decisions since the Conservatives became the majority . The sad part is no term limits and they could have dementia and cannot be removed . They are not elected by us , despite public objection they are still appointed these lifetime positions . Look at Kavanagh's appointment process . Did it matter that there was so much controversy ? No . He was in the right political party at the time . So the checks and balances aren't stable . As a judge it should not be about party . What about the lies to get appointed ,no we won't mess with precident . Roe vs.Wade is messing with precident !!!

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94746382926 t1_jbmz4m6 wrote

Idk but I'm feeling pretty good about being in Michigan.

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OrdinalNomi t1_jblmu3x wrote

That’s the thing ain’t it? Nothing is set in place and everything is in flux, which is why some want stability.

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OwenLoveJoy t1_jblohhr wrote

The United States has a way of going through cycles where everyone is predicting it’s eminent demise and then a decade later it’s clearly on top again. See 1860 VS 1870, 1935 VS 1945, 1975 VS 1985, etc. the issues you cite are real but fears of an eminent civil war are overblown. Who’s willing to fight? And for what?

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Murein OP t1_jbls7pc wrote

For instance, I've seen concerningly high metrics of republicans thinking the 2020 election was illegitimate and that they expect the Democrats to try to "steal" 2024 too. While being on board with the idea of taking up guns to "restore order" Then you also have the fact that a crapton of bills have gotten passed in swing states that either suppress voters or allow overturning of election results. And you have republicans on CPAC advocating for eradication of minority identities from public life while laws are being passed to do just that. And January 6th still hasn't led to any far-reaching consequences to any of the people behind it. Most of them are still in office even. Which could very well just embolden them to try to repeat it. I dunno, I just see things as democratically bleak and a high risk of either organised intimidation or mass riots cascading into guerrilla combat.

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OwenLoveJoy t1_jblwkll wrote

I agree with the problems but I think they are less lasting than many do. Even if they continue I see a slow churn rather than some big blowup. The percentage of people actually ready to take up arms against their fellow citizens is minuscule. I share your concerns though.

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RedFoxCommissar t1_jblxh37 wrote

The US is actually the only nation predicted to grow stronger here. Everyone about to have a population collapse, and we keep getting immigration.

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Ginger_Boi000 t1_jbmjjsz wrote

I’m tired of hearing “USA is diminishing.” Who’s taking our place. We’re going nowhere. China is declining. India couldn’t challenge us for another 30 years. Russia is a shell of the USSR glory days. It’s so dumb to say USA is out.

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Murein OP t1_jbml5rp wrote

Yeah okay, sorry for stepping on so many sore American toes with that. I'll rephrase.

A USA that is desirable to live in

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Ginger_Boi000 t1_jbmltyx wrote

Oh yeah. Don’t get it mistaken. I’m American. USA is a SHITHOLE rn and gettin worse. Make no mistake though, we’re not getting weaker in the world stage, we’re getting stronger, and that’s no longer a positive for this world unfortunately

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TheSecretAgenda t1_jbo129o wrote

Come to New England our standard of living rivals even Scandanavian countries.

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Murein OP t1_jbo1hyo wrote

Always did consider a few years of a stint in Mass or Maine. However the developments after 2016 are kind of putting me off that. I think I'll wait and see how the next election goes before giving my final verdict on the US.

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Kingstad t1_jbok5fq wrote

Dude from Not Just Bikes youtube channel had been travelling and living in over 60 countries for his job and when starting a family and settling down he concluded on Netherlands as the most ideal place. Course this is just about general cost and quality of living

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n4nattynat t1_jbn9tk1 wrote

Happy to see I'm not the only one thinking about this. I'm gonna take a stab at it.

First, I think the U.S. still has some runway, for the following reasons: 1) It's still a popular place for immigrants. If the smart ones manage to build lives here, this country will continue to be the leading standard for innovation and quality of life. 2) Despite the terrible state of American politics, there are still plenty of reasonable people to give us a chance to return to common sense. 3) U.S. law is still unbelievably unique in its allowance for people to pursue whatever good things they want (career, family, etc.). Of course, major generalizations here lol.

Canada is attractive for its easier immigration policies and similar English Common Law. However, with the way its parliament is looking right now, it's a tough one. But hope is not lost. The country is somehow churning out some of the best minds we've seen in our lifetime.

In terms of national power, China is one to look at for the next 10 years, IMO. But I'm no expert, so I'll stop there.

Europe is a tough one, but I'm rooting for southern and eastern Europeans. They're not entirely woke (yet), and places like Poland and Germany are still popular. But their abysmal birth rates are stressing them out. And I'm not too familiar with their laws to say how accommodating they are.

I'm quite optimistic about Australia and New Zealand. Immigration is quite easy, nice quality of life, reasonable education.

For me, I'd be looking at immigration trends: moves to NA for reasons already stated, to EU to replace their declining population, to AUS (I know its a popular immigration spot for south and southeast Asians). My guess is that the future belongs to immigrants.

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hononononoh t1_jbo1rzw wrote

Drought and massive sudden influxes desperate migrants are the big looming specters for both southern Europe and Australia.

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evotrans t1_jbofri6 wrote

> “I'm quite optimistic about Australia and New Zealand. Immigration is quite easy,”

Australia and New Zealand are actually two of the hardest countries to emigrate to.

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n4nattynat t1_jbp5e2f wrote

I take back the statement about Australia's immigration, but I doubt your statement is true as well. Below are my sources, where AUS is neither among the most difficult nor the easiest (although consider they're experiencing labor shortage rn). You'll need to provide support for your statements too.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/121114/5-hardest-countries-getting-citizenship.asp

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/hardest-countries-to-immigrate-to

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evotrans t1_jbto69r wrote

I have been to Australia three times and I’m quite familiar with it and it’s immigration rules. I had friends from London who thought they could emigrate Australia, since it is part of the commonwealth, it was too difficult even for them so they had to settle on coming to America instead. The only way somebody from America will be able to do it is either to marry a native or to have a lot of money in liquid assets that you bring with you. For certain jobs, where they need people, the grant work visas, but that doesn’t make you a citizen.

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Pontaporta t1_jbkmn9g wrote

Serbia is good but would be even better if US and EU wouldn't stinking up the place with their parasitic agendas and NATO pillaging Europe...

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