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subzero112001 t1_j0jrr8f wrote

Reply to comment by HarryHacker42 in Young Kids, Hard Time (2011) - "When it comes to kids and punishment, the question needs to be answered: Do kids, no matter what the crime, belong in the adult prison?" [00:41:45] by MiddleUziVert

Damn, it’s almost like the crime performed by the kid had to be pretty heinous huh? Such as a crime that would FOREVER effect the victim?(such as blowing your moms brains out with a handgun, because she didn’t buy you a VR headset).

And since the punishment should fit the crime…….

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DancinWithWolves t1_j0koz66 wrote

“Punishment should fit the crime” is such a basic, biblical, out of date concept.

Outcome should promote society’s goals.

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subzero112001 t1_j0kr47q wrote

“The punishment should fit the crime” is an incredibly rational way to approach those kinds of situations.

I didn’t use any religious background rationale to support that phrase. Small crimes getting small punishments and big crimes getting big punishments is very understandable logic.

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StingMachine t1_j0kume0 wrote

The idea of the “punishment fit the crime” is a religious one. It’s literally from the book of Exodus 21:24 “Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, hand for a hand”.

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DancinWithWolves t1_j0krels wrote

Can you explain what you mean? It sounds like you’ve just repeated your argument.

Imo, the justice system should not be punitive, but rehabilitative. Simple. All evidence points to the fact that modern prisons do nothing to rehabilitate, and have a net negative effect on society. They cost us, the tax payer, a stupid amount of money, and make private companies profit off of human suffering.

Anyone who advocates for putting a child into an adult prison is, in my opinion, sick.

(Source: worked for years in youth justice, juvenile detention, child protection, and psychology).

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subzero112001 t1_j0kwsms wrote

You said it’s an out of date concept. Why would something that is rational and reasonably applies to present day be considered “out of date”?

A purely “rehabilitative” justice system would merely be abused by just about every single criminal. There would be zero repercussions.

Many criminals perform a crime because they believe that there won’t be any repercussions. Literally changing the system so there are no repercussions would cause crime rates to explode causing a complete destruction of our society.

I find it humorous how you’ve altered my statement of “the punishment should fit the crime” and molded it towards “children deserve to go to prison with adults”, which is not what I stated.

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theLiteral_Opposite t1_j0kzjv9 wrote

Why have countries who moved to rehabilitative systems not had their societies destroyed and explode?

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CelticGaelic t1_j0jy78a wrote

You make a good point, but the question had to be asked: was there a mental/psychological issue at the core of the act? Could the kid genuinely not understand the long term impact their actions will have?

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CharlemagneAdelaar t1_j0kvux0 wrote

Well, let's throw a scenario at the wall.

I personally do not believe in rehabilitating school shooters -- if a child decides to murder their peers, regardless of age, that person should not be allowed back out into society.

Either way, it won't matter to most of us if they get put into adult jail or juvie, as long as the outcome is the same -- barring them from society for the rest of their lives.

When rehabilitation is not the goal, it matters a lot less HOW we deal with it -- keep them away from society in any way possible.

For lesser crimes, if rehabilitation is the goal, then I can see separating child vs. adult jails.

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CelticGaelic t1_j0mh8cz wrote

I have very mixed thoughts and feelings on situations like that. Mostly? I agree with you.

But I am hoping that we find some better way. Regardless, though, the fact of the matter remains that treating acts of violence like that as actions of a mentally ill person doesn't mean they get away with it. Contrary to what Hollywood likes to say, when you successfully employ the Insanity Plea, you're most likely never leaving the hospital they put you in.

With all that said, I've also had conversations about high profile serial killers like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy. My views on the death penalty have changed a lot, but I still believe that execution was really the only reasonable way to deal with those two. The point with this semi-off topic tangent being that it's a really complicated issue, and I'm not sure what the right answer is at this point in time.

I do hope that, some day, we know enough about what makes kids do horrible things, how to identify the warning signs, and get them help ahead of time so that this isn't even a debate.

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