Jeep_Stuff t1_jbmyl77 wrote
Reply to comment by Whoretron8000 in When The LAPD Blows Up Your Neighborhood (2023) the lapd mishandles a ton of fireworks [00:18:50] by Oh_Fuck_Naw
That was only 45 pounds according to the news reports in the doc. 2.5 tons would have been a little bit bigger...
Thetallguy1 t1_jbn6kpn wrote
As someone who's blown a charge with a net explosive weight of around 20lbs.... yeah that definitely was not 2.5 tons, 45lbs sounds completely right. The OKC bombing was a little over 2.5 tons, and that literally evaporated half a building.
Tony2Punch t1_jbn8nm8 wrote
The OKC bombing was a fertilizer bomb not a bunch of fireworks
Own_Win6000 t1_jbnpm3h wrote
the Physics don’t care where your energy comes from
TheChemistAstronaut t1_jbnzpt8 wrote
But the chemistry does, lol
Different stuff explodes with different energy. You're telling me however many tons of fertilizer bomb would explode the same as the same amount of fireworks?
thunder_blue t1_jbo0767 wrote
No, they're telling you that the explosive force is the same in both cases. '45 lbs' is a description of the force, not the weight of the bomb/fireworks.
mrgonzalez t1_jbo44bh wrote
The original quote was on the weight of fireworks.
turnpot t1_jbpgvwg wrote
This is incorrect. First of all, the force from the fireworks is not measured in pounds; even if you're talking about the shock wave, the peak force from that at a given point would be measured in psi (pressure), and would vary wildly depending on where you measured it
Own_Win6000 t1_jbo157n wrote
Did you get your Chem BS from the university of phoenix?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent
Ahahaha he blocked me - every redditors favorite way to win an argument
I’ll always miss you /u/thechemistastronaut
TheChemistAstronaut t1_jbo2hsd wrote
Resorting to a personal attack, which is also just misguided (which chem BS teaches about explosive TNT equivalent measurements lol?) and linking Wikipedia instead of an actual source relevant to the situation at hand. Instead of being constructive you're just trying to inflate your own ego.
I suggest going and reading the (more relevant) LAPD 27th St After Action Report, LAPD 716 E. 27th Street AAR, and ATF Final TCV Report on the incident, which I did prior to commenting.
CowMetrics t1_jbp7k51 wrote
Not to mention each forework is in its own compartmentalized container. Taking far longer for them all to go off than if they were all ‘disassembled’ and put into a singular container. And then one that could partially contain the blast until everything was lit. Not all explosives are the same, they have different expansion and mechanisms of which to go off
The__Showoff t1_jbp57h1 wrote
Now that's a mic drop lmao
Tbagjimmy t1_jbnxcn9 wrote
My true hero, thank you.
entotheenth t1_jbnqe5e wrote
A ton of fireworks is not a ton of explosives, it’s mostly paper.
Own_Win6000 t1_jbnst23 wrote
Explosions are measured in the unit “tons of tnt”
WikiSummarizerBot t1_jbnsu06 wrote
>TNT equivalent is a convention for expressing energy, typically used to describe the energy released in an explosion. The ton of TNT is a unit of energy defined by that convention to be 4. 184 gigajoules, which is the approximate energy released in the detonation of a metric ton (1,000 kilograms) of TNT. In other words, for each gram of TNT exploded, 4.
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entotheenth t1_jbnu9zi wrote
And what does that have to do with the amount of perchlorate and paper wrapped around a Roman candle.
resumethrowaway222 t1_jbo3xil wrote
How did only 45 pounds do that much damage? I set off more than 45 pounds of fireworks most fourths of July.
misterchief117 t1_jbo87jn wrote
They substantially exceeded the rating for the Total Containment Vessel (TVC) they put everything in. It's likely they added too much initiating explosives and were off by a few zero's in their calculations...if they even did any.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/TVC-TN_0115-508C.pdf
This source suggests TVC's the size they used are rated between 2 to 10kg of TNT equivalent explosives. If the LAPD estimated the fireworks had 45 pounds of TNT equivalent, then they REALLY fucked up.
This essentially just turned it into a bigger bomb with more shrapnel.
The source also states that, "The TCV is designed to contain the bomb while being transported to an area where it can be rendered safe."
In other words, they should have never detonated this within a populated area.
What's really fucking stupid is that boxed/packaged fireworks are incredibly safe. Even bootleg ones are as long as they're treated with respect. Consider they made it all the way to wherever you brought them without spontaneously exploding...
The LAPD should have just hauled the boxes away to a remote site and then either detonated them or use them for a public firework event. I'm surprised they didn't just sell them back to the community and arrest anyone who bought them because they're corrupt fucks.
fencepost_ajm t1_jbozlrx wrote
Or simplified, they turned their explosion containment vessel into a giant pipe bomb, magnifying the damage.
surfer_ryan t1_jbq52x6 wrote
Yeah they kept harking back to "imagine if it had gone off on the road!?!?!" But like guys how do you think that shit got there to begin with it just materialized?? It wouldn't go off on the road unless they idk set it off... even then had they bothered to do literally any kind of measurements of weight at all... they would have known it was too much... almost double the maximum capacity... that is straight negligence.
LAPD needs to just take the L on this one, move on and learn from their mistake.
Absolutely unbelievable they are trying to play this off like they didn't fuck up here. Like I get it to some extent but holy shit sometimes you fuck up and you just gotta own it.
instantnet t1_jbr00mi wrote
Hose them down? Before loading on a flat bed?
reflUX_cAtalyst t1_jbpeuqc wrote
ANFO and black powder fireworks are NOT the same thing.
Thetallguy1 t1_jbpg8ho wrote
I don't use ANFO, I dont think I ever had. Mostly RDX based explosives. The biggest mistake they made though was when their amateur hour bomb tech "visually estimated," the NEW instead of doing some basic as algebra.
MagicHamsta t1_jbou9l4 wrote
They used standard police weighing procedures, the entire container (the bomb containing vehicle) was included as part of the weight of the contraband.
Whoretron8000 t1_jbqye1j wrote
Oh crap, I thought it was the whole stash when writing the comment. Which was 5000 lbs according to the begining of the doc.
So they added way more explosives to set it off... Only blowing up a tiny fraction of the total.
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