Submitted by Apprehensive-Egg374 t3_10lfuwo in DIY
its8up t1_j5xkfti wrote
Did service on home water equipment for years. Would definitely recommend stacking brass tees instead of cutting into that shitty poly water filter line, as others have suggested. We used push-on fittings (John Guest) which are guaranteed to have compressed o-rings after about 6 years. Poly also deforms due to the pressure of the o-ring seal. They caused soooo much water damage. I simply could not understand why the company insisted on using that crap. Can't see shark bite performing any better on poly.
I've always called the product you were initially trying to find a tee stop, though it seems Amazon has a different name.
its8up t1_j5xkt9w wrote
Just zoomed the pic. Why the hell is your dishwasher supply hooked to the cold water supply? That's odd to me.
Inchkeaton t1_j5xssji wrote
Picture was deleted, but why would that be odd to you, how are you getting water to your dishwasher?
gothcopter t1_j5ykrp8 wrote
Dishwashers use only hot water, never cold. The dishwasher has it's own heating elements it can use to heat water to the correct temperature, but the dishwasher's heating system is less efficient than your water heater.
Inchkeaton t1_j5ymbax wrote
Must be another UK vs US thing, here in UK we generally connect only the cold mains to dishwashers.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j5ylrn5 wrote
Yeah It was done wrong by the previous owner. so I’ll move it. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
Maplelongjohn t1_j5yx9d7 wrote
Those old ass valves are likely junk.
That's why they added more valves.
If you are going to move that DW T you're going to have to shut off the main.
Any threaded pipe needs pipe dope.
Compression fittings (like dishwasher line and faucet lines) don't need anything as they are a mechanical seal and they'll have a rubber gasket in the end of the line
The dishwasher should have a separate shut off. If you are doing it,do it right and add one.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j5z1ag1 wrote
Once the main is being shut off, is it hard to replace the old shut off valve on the bottom and the pipe? If not, what should I replace then with?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j608a8c wrote
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have more specific advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
Maplelongjohn t1_j63xjib wrote
What I would do
Wait til Monday because an emergency plumber on the weekend cost 2x.
Shut off water
Drain system
Careful remove those valves. Unscrew the flex lines. Remove everything coming up from the old valves. Make sure to use 2 wrenches to counter hold the fixture so you don't accidentally snap anything off.
Remove the old valves holding the pipe coming out of the wall. Hopefully the threads stay on the pipe .
If that all comes apart without incident you've pretty much done it.
You need to verify the size of the pipe from the wall- is it 1/2 or 3/8" NPT (national pipe thread)
Find new quarter turn stops that fit that pipe(1/2 FPT(female pipe thread) x 3/8 compression is common)
You can find bullhead stops as well, so each fixture has a valve. 1/2 NPT x 3/8comp x 3/8 comp for dishwasher and likely one with a 3/8 & 1/4 comp for cold side.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-Brass-1-2-in-Fip-x-3-8-in-Compression-Quarter-Turn/1001852370
Now that would work to get you back to where you are now,. looking for a place to connect the fridge.
You can use a compression T https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dial-Brass-Evaporative-Cooler-Water-Hook-Up-Kit/3092871
But I'd use 1/4" copper tubing to connect that tee to the stop.
Then you'll have 2 @1/4 compression and one 3/8 compression fitting for sink, water filter and fridge.
The hot side you'll have 2 @ 3/8 for the faucet and the dishwasher
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j63yoy3 wrote
Thank you so so much!! That was very detailed and helpful!! I really appreciate it!
In case the pipe thread does come off, what would I do? I don’t have access to the other side of the pipe as it’s behind the wall…Would there be a way to fix it with an adaptor or something?
One more question if you don’t mind: Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Maplelongjohn t1_j6456r2 wrote
Sometimes the pipe threads/ end of pipe can be removed with an easy out, if not that's where the plumber and a repipe comes into play.
Likely need to open the wall. What's on the other side of this wall?
Negative on that laundry.
But if you have a plumber come they can assess the situation and make recommendations.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6474tj wrote
The other side of the wall is another apartments bedroom. I live in an apartment building (I own my unit). Thats somewhat the issue. If the pipe threads come off, the other pipe thread is far behind the wall and I’d have the break the wall. And it’s possible the next pipe behind the wall also breaks off when you try take that pipe off lol so it can be endless. The building is very old and so I’m sure the piping is very old as well. Is there a way that if the threads come off, I could cut the pipe to make the ends straight, and then attach some type of adapter or something? Or the only way is really to keep removing pipes behind the wall till you get a thread?
Maplelongjohn t1_j64v3ap wrote
I imagine you can't even shut off your own unit without the whole building and thusly that assembly of stops and fittings you have there ...
I'd just add another add a t for the fridge and be done with it
Or get ready for a barely reasonable to quite large plumbers bill...
Chicago? I'd guess from the brass drain assembly.
Get an outlet cover on the electric, no reason for that.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j651hln wrote
The super can close my apartments water. I’m in NY.
If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
Maplelongjohn t1_j63y2ip wrote
Now if anything goes wrong what your concerned about is the 2 pipes coming out of the walls.
These are probably corroded and mostly clogged up. The threads might stay in the valves when you go to remove it.
You may be able to unthread the pipe from the wall and replace that.
The pipe may snap off inside the wall as soon as you touch anything, and necessitate opening the wall and running new pipe to the sink.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j642crx wrote
So I’m in an apartment (I own it) and I don’t have access to behind the walls. And the end of the pipe is behind the walls. So if when I try to take off the shutter valve, the pipe cracks, or the threads for the pipe comes off with the shutter valve, the other end of the pipe is far behind the wall and I don’t have access to it to replace the whole pipe. Would there be a way to solve this issue in case it happens without removing the wall to change the pipe? Like is there an adaptor or something that I can use to attach to the pipe if it breaks off to give me a threaded end to use?
Maplelongjohn t1_j646kdd wrote
You'd be opening the wall through the back of the cabinet then.
It's probably worth every penny to have a plumber come deal with this.
They know all the tricks to help prevent the worst case.
They have insurance too. In case the worst happens and you flood the neighbors.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j61rrtf wrote
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
Maplelongjohn t1_j61zqtn wrote
I think you should probably get a plumber.
You need to at least learn what the common types of connections are and how to make watertight.
It looks like 3/8 pipe coming out of the wall
That valve is definitely not what you want.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j63w8uk wrote
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
root_over_ssh t1_j5yu6fk wrote
I've seen instructions that do either hot or cold - I think it comes down to what your heat source is and how long the run from heater to dishwasher is.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j5ylp07 wrote
It was done wrong by the previous owner. so I’ll move it. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
gothcopter t1_j5yncxg wrote
Why take out the tee on the cold water side? Just remove the dishwasher from the tee and connect the line to the fridge there in its place. Now all you need to do is add a tee on the hot water side and reconnect the dishwasher there.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j5yovo6 wrote
The bottom shutter valve is a little old so I don’t completely trust it. I assume that’s why they put a second shutter valve on top too. (Notice the hot water also has two shutter valves and nothing in between). So I figured it’s best to just remove it and install the water line above the second shutter valve. That way there’s only that one pipe between the two shutter valves. What do you think?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j609qc1 wrote
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have more specific advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j61s821 wrote
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j63wa24 wrote
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j5ylkzj wrote
Thx! I’m also gonna take the bottom Tee for the dishwasher and move it to the hot water side. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
its8up t1_j5z553t wrote
The tee you're talking about has npt threads. Always use thread sealer, such as Teflon tape, on npt threads.
Looks like a close (short) nipple going from valve to tee, then of course a longer nipple used as a riser. I can't tell what material the supply lines are made of, tho. If they're galvanized, find another way to perform this surgery. If the supply is pvc, just be careful. If it's copper you'll still have to be careful, though it's far less prone to snapping off in your hand and causing a mess.
Suggestion: Since you don't trust the original shutoff, install a shutoff valve on the existing tee for the fridge cold water supply line and add a 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8 stop tee to the hot side for your dishwasher supply line. Some day you may find it very useful to shut off the water supply to the fridge for a couple days and still have a cold water supply. Your local hardware store should have all those parts, but often the bastards don't.
its8up t1_j5z67lg wrote
Fuck. You're in an apartment? Definitely do the suggested route instead of moving the npt tee. You don't want to do anything that could break stuff and cause water damage. Your deposit is at stake.
Edit: swypo
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j60c7fh wrote
I own the apartment. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j61s18n wrote
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work? (I own the apartment.)
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
its8up t1_j63zmk2 wrote
Compression valves like the one you linked will work fine on naked copper, but are useless on threaded pipe.
The major issue will be getting the old valves removed without snapping anything off. If the pipes coming out of the wall are galvanized iron they are a ticking time bomb, but the pipes they are connected to would most likely also be galvanized iron. Ergo, wrenching on those valves could snap off pipe in the wall. You'll have to be very careful, and even that may not be good enough.
Back in the day, I helped out an old man whose bathroom shutoff valves were leaking at the galvanized threads. Was going to try to tighten the valves onto the pipe, but as soon as I bumped the cold valve with a pipe wrench it shot off like a rocket. Water was everywhere in an instant. Oops. Learned that day to shut off water before sneezing on galvanized pipe. It was 1/2" galvanized pipe. Luckily I had some 5/8" fittings which fit well enough into the remaining threads to stop the leak. Considered myself very lucky that the pipe didn't break in the wall while installing.
If I'm seeing things wrong and that's brass coming out of the wall, removing the old valve may not risk snapping the pipe off at the threads going into the valve. However, that piece of pipe is threaded into something and odds are very high that the pipe within the wall is galvanized. I simply cannot tell.
Any surgery involving old galvanized pipe risks opening a pandora's box of plumbing issues. Attempting repair of one bit can lead to the next bit farther back breaking. Attempting to fix that next bit can break the next one back.
I totally get your determination to remove that jackass bandaid job, as redundant nonfunctional valves are stupid and the whole thing looks like shit. I'd definitely handle such an issue myself, as I have all the tools and skills to handle the repair and deal with any resulting damage. However, I fear you may lack a few necessary tools and skills. I encourage getting the tools and earning the skills rather than calling a price gouging vulture in nearly all cases, but this particular mission carries a lot of extra risk and may not be the ideal situation for breaking your plumbing cherry. Adding a valve for the drinking water and dishwasher is much simpler and less prone to causing major issues, albeit another jackass bandaid of a repair.
If you must do this surgery, secure the pipe coming out of the wall with a pipe wrench to make sure the only thing that turns is the old valve you are removing. The new valve must have the appropriate npt threads to fit the old pipe. I'm guessing its 1/2" npt, but it could be 3/4" or an oddball size. Assuming it is 1/2" npt, I would use this type of valve to accommodate the sink and dishwasher/ fridge and add a stop tee on the cold side for drinking water. Obviously longer lines or extensions would be needed to connect the faucet.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j60cell wrote
Hey, I have another question. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
its8up t1_j60jpts wrote
It's an apartment. Replacing that stuff isn't on you, but if you alter it and it causes damage that could be on you.
The old valve is brass and some old brass valves had lead, especially in the packing around the valve stem. Also not uncommon for old brass fittings to have a little lead. Does that valve have lead? I dunno.
The shiny spots in the threads on the riser lead me to believe it's brass. That's good. Can't tell for certain if the pipe coming out of the wall is a brass nipple or galvanized. Brass and copper are great for durability. Galvanized sucks, as the protective coating goes away from the inside, which then leads to rusting. The thinnest part of galvanized pipe is where it's threaded, so if it's old and rusted inside that's exactly where it can break off and force you into a plumber or maintenance man situation.
Besides a slight possibility of lead contamination, whatever pipe is bringing water into your house is perfectly suitable for water delivery. The alternative is for the landlord to rip out the entirety of water pipe in the building and replace with pex or copper. Such surgery is very costly, so that is unlikely to happen until the entire building starts having incessant plumbing issues.
Reverse osmosis water filtration can remove nearly all heavy metals and other undesirable crap from the water, so if you're gonna replace anything I'd recommend upgrading to RO for your drinking water and also run the RO to your fridge. Reverse osmosis needs a place to dump the trash water, which would require drilling a hole in the sink drain and installing a fitting (usually comes with the RO kit). You'd also have to replace the drinking water faucet to the one that comes with the RO kit, as it has an air gap (or damn well should) for the trash water. RO systems produce water very slowly, thus they come with a holding tank. It'll still come out slow like the current filter, but you can be assured that it's much cleaner.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j63w4qd wrote
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
its8up t1_j646im4 wrote
It's possible, but washing machines are high water demand appliances so expect longer run time for both dishwasher and washing machine if you run them at the same time.
A major concern is draining the washing machine, as those things dump a huge amount of water. The kitchen sink drain is only 1.5" pipe, though they often go into 2" pipe at the wall. Washing machine drains usually go straight into 2" pipe and must have an air gap.
Dumping it into the sink could provide an air gap and a decent baffle tank, but this would not be an elegant solution. Putting a tee into your kitchen drain line, running a pipe through the cabinet, then installing a riser to the height of the kitchen countertop could work. Just strap the riser to the cabinet and hook the washing machine drain into it. If you install the tee after the sink J trap, you'll also need to put a J trap on your newly jackassed washing machine drain line.
Your case looks special, in that you have fancy kitchen drain line shit. Assuming that J trap has 2" threads, if you can remove that reducer tee from the J trap and install a 2" tee, then install your reducer tee on top of that, things could work quite nicely. Of course, you'd have to shorten this sink drain pipes a bit too get them hooked back up.
This could cause a building code violation, but as long as you don't get caught it's better than trips to the laundromat. You may also want to make sure you're even allowed to have a washing machine, as the first unbalanced load will rat out your washing machine ownership to all of your neighbors.
The only other thing to consider is that washing machines also dump huge amounts of lint down the drain. This is only a concern if the building has iron sewer pipe, as the rust chunks can cause lint buildup.
P.S. if/when you have to replace your kitchen sink drain pipes, do not use the thin brass nonsense. Plastic will not etch out over time, but thin brass will. If you live there long enough, you'll see exactly what I'm taking about.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6538r6 wrote
Thank you!!
If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
its8up t1_j67mx9e wrote
The pipe coming from the wall as drain line should be 2", and hopefully not iron pipe. .....but very often it is iron. This larger pipe is less apt to break.
As for the 1/2" galvanized supply lines, I would recommend against any shark bite type fitting going onto galvanized pipe. It's kinda rough and may not make a good seal. Also, if galvanized pipe breaks off there's still gonna be threads which can be sharp enough to damage the o-ring in a shark bite fitting.
Perhaps I am a minority, but my experience with shitty 1/4" and 3/8" shark bite type fittings biased me against that crap all together. Sure o-ring technology may have improved such that they don't crush in 6 years and leak if you sneeze on them after the o-rings are deformed. Still, I will never use shark bite type fittings if any other solution exists.
If the 1/2" pipe breaks off at the valve, you'd be much better off trying to jackass it with something threaded. The fitting I used for that purpose may have had female 5/8 flare threads. It took a lot of Teflon tape and threaded past the remaining 1/2" npt threads. Wish I could find an example part on Amazon, but didn't have any luck.
its8up t1_j67n3q5 wrote
Wish I lived close enough to just help you with this task, but guessing you are nowhere near Jackson, MS.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6akkst wrote
Thank you so much for the help! I’m from NY 😞 Would have loved the help. I’ll let you know how it goes!
its8up t1_j6bgba7 wrote
New York?! The only place with prices as bad as California, or even worse? No wonder you don't want to hire a plumber! Good luck with the project!
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6bit8x wrote
Lmaooo I did bring two plumbers for quotes for the washing machine. They both asked for $4,000+ Crazy
its8up t1_j6bsk4p wrote
Fucks sake. You mean, all this time I could have been commuting from Mississippi to New York to make a killing doing simple plumbing work? Meh. Probably too much licensing and permit requirements.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6d5q2b wrote
Lmaooo you think the plumbers I called are licensed and insured?? That would cost even more.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6d5xwm wrote
Many of the plumbers here, have no licenses or insurance.
Even the others, only the head of the company is a licensed and insured plumber. All their workers have no licenses.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6d6f2m wrote
Plumbing and electrical is crazy here. They charge $200 just to come to your house. Then if the job is 5 minutes max (like just changing an outlet or a simple shutter valve) they’ll charge another $300 for labor. And charge you $500 total.
Keep in mind though, the boss is keeping all the money. The workers are just getting paid a low hourly wage and maybe some commission.
its8up t1_j6dh2ae wrote
It's the same everywhere, in that a company will ride a bunch of low hourly workers on one guy's high hourly license. I get that service trucks and tools are expensive, but that guy can fuck right off. Idgaf how much profit he has after paying for all that equipment and whatnot. Would rather have a reasonable wage so I can afford my own damn equipment. I've picked up several trades out of necessity or to prevent having to deal with such vultures. Been a long time since I've had to call a mechanic, electrician, plumber, carpenter, welder, locksmith, appliance repairman, or hvac guy. The only licensing I ever bothered with was the EPA 608 license for hvac. Holy hell those hvac tools were expensive, but they paid for themselves in like 2 side jobs that I did for several thousand dollars less than the big guys quoted.
Apprehensive-Egg374 OP t1_j6dytf8 wrote
To be honest, I’m getting tempted to just leave it all as it is, and just add in another 1/4 tee above the current 1/4 tee for the fridge and leave it all be. At the end of the day, my initial question was just “can I add a Tee on top of the Tee” and I got my answer which was a yes lol
At the end of the day, if the pipe coming out of the wall snaps, there doesn’t seem be anyway to solve the issue other than taking that pipe off. Which can then cause the pipe in the wall to snap off and cause a bigger headache. Worse, it’s possible that when I try to take off the valve, the piping in the wall is galvanized pipe and that snaps off in the wall. I don’t really have the thousands of dollars it would cost to hire a plumber to fix that issue. Given how I don’t know if the pipe in the wall is an old rusted and corroded galvanized pipe that could snap in an instant when I try to remove the old valve, I feel as though this is just to risky for me.
I don’t know. What do you think?
its8up t1_j6f7n71 wrote
What I'd do: Add a 3/8 tee to the hot side and connect the dishwasher to a hot water source, as God intended. Add a valve to the old dishwasher cold water supply and connect the fridge to that.
There's no harm in leaving the dishwasher connected as it is and putting a tee on the cold side. However, a dishwasher issue will result in having to shut off the water. Only costs a few bucks to add a valve there.
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