Submitted by TonyFugginMontana t3_z7yhm4 in DIY
metarchaeon t1_iy91mjf wrote
Reply to comment by dominus_aranearum in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana
Where do you connect a neutral to a switch? Honest question.
TonyFugginMontana OP t1_iy94eo3 wrote
That's just it, it doesn't connect anywhere, it just gets capped. Apparently to accommodate the possibility of future retrofitting for "smart" switches, which do require a neutral, per other comment above.
Masterandslave1003 t1_iy9gjct wrote
Ha, I bought some smart switch for my old house and learned this the hard way! The neutral apparently carries a tiny bit of current that the smart switch uses to keep its settings of something like that.
WittyMonikerGoesHere t1_iy9h7vq wrote
Believe it or not, the neutral carries exactly the same current as the hot, when connected in a circuit.
[deleted] t1_iy9k1qr wrote
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KapJ1coH t1_iy9kyiv wrote
Wait a second, if I don't have a neutral, can I just connect hot to both hot and neutral terminal? I'm not very knowledgeable in jome electricity so I might be wrong.
bluGill t1_iy9og18 wrote
This is no longer allowed by code, but it used to be that instead of a neutral people would use the neutral as the switched hot side and no neutral would go to the switch at all. This saves some money, and copper is not cheap.
Hot and neutral go from the breaker to the outlet, the neutral wire is connected to the neutral size of the outlet. Hot is connected to a second wire that goes to the switch, then the neutral from that second line is connected to the other side of the switch and then to the hot side of the outlet. When doing this you were supposed to paint the white wire black (or red) so everyone knew it wasn't neutral, but often this wasn't done.
This is not connecting hot and neutral together. It is taking a wire that is normally used for neutral and using it for hot in a situation where the neutral wire wouldn't be used anyway.
emcturkeyshirt t1_iy9rzxm wrote
That is up on black back on white rule…. And there is no neutral involved. You’re making the white wire hot……………..hence phasing it black.
Switching a neutral will never work…. In you single phase home…. It just won’t really work.
On a three phase system, well breaking or switching a neutral will create a dangerously unbalanced load. Possibly resulting in blowing up your lights and electronics.
Don’t ever switch a neutral. You can use the white wire as hot in one specific scenario. But it is NOT a neutral.
WittyMonikerGoesHere t1_iy9p6vq wrote
On a normal switch, there is no neutral terminal. The three connections are for line in, line out, and ground. Neutrals are bridged in a standard wiring situation.
KapJ1coH t1_iy9z144 wrote
Oh I was talking about a smart switch, sorry if I wasn't clear.
MeshColour t1_iy9jt6e wrote
Believe it or not, a "dumb" switch uses no power, so has no requirement to be hooked up to the neutral. And yes zero would equal zero, which is why neutral isn't required for the switch itself
WittyMonikerGoesHere t1_iy9ouir wrote
Not to operate, no. Some are saying codes require it now. A "dumb" switch only interrupts the circuit. You could wire the neutrals to the switch instead of the hots, and it would work exactly the same. Shouldn't because changing a light bulb would then carry the possibility of electrocution, but could.
emcturkeyshirt t1_iy9ro1b wrote
Believe it or not, if you were to break a neutral or switch it…… bad things will happen.
spyrosj t1_iy9k6zw wrote
Not an electrician but I think the reason the neutral is there so that the connected smart switch can complete the circuit and get power. An inline switch just breaks the electrical connection. And like /u/WittyMonikerGoesHere, the neutral carries the same load as the hot since its necessary to complete the circuit.
hardMarble t1_iy9lzpi wrote
100%, the switch's brains couldn't be on without having some current go to the light, if there is no neutral in the box
bluGill t1_iy9oo1f wrote
There are dumb switches with built in lights (expensive, but I recommend them) that really should have a neutral.
[deleted] t1_iy9veck wrote
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I_AM_NOT_A_WOMBAT t1_iy9cf9t wrote
When you use any kind of specialty switch, like (obviously not relevant here) a motion sensor, timer, etc. a neutral is best. There are motion sensors that pull a bit of current through the circuit itself, but they are terrible at best and often don't work with LED lighting, which is also code now.
I suspect the code mentioned is meant to prevent shoddy sparkies from lazily grabbing neutrals from nearby circuits, which can result in shared neutrals (ask me how I know this).
I can't honestly think of a reason why you'd use anything other than a dumb toggle switch for an under-sink cutoff for a DW/Disposal, but it's probably easier and safer to just say "all switch locations need a neutral" than to specify "except under kitchen cabinets where the switch is only used for an appliance cutoff".
the_pinguin t1_iy9j5cf wrote
Motion sensors use the ground wire to complete a circuit in the absence of a neutral wire. It's not ideal, but it does work.
I_AM_NOT_A_WOMBAT t1_iy9muy0 wrote
True, but older homes often don't have ground wires either. Ours built in the late 50's didn't have grounds.
the_pinguin t1_iy9naj8 wrote
Oh I know. My House was built in 1900 according to records, but I suspect earlier.
[deleted] t1_iy9xaci wrote
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emcturkeyshirt t1_iy9r7uc wrote
Never switch a neutral.
However, with the newer electronic switches (dimmers, timers, remote switches…) a neutral will be required.
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