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nullpotato t1_jd45f1c wrote

Reply to comment by PlatypusTrapper in Why should wires not be twisted before putting in wire nut? by dhekurbaba

For DIY there is nothing better than Wago. I love them for semi-permanent stuff. Understand why pros might not want to spend several dollars per box on connectors but for small projects they are amazing.

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PlatypusTrapper t1_jd47naw wrote

Why not for permanent installs? Too expensive?

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nullpotato t1_jd4bca6 wrote

Cost. I personally use them everywhere but that's because I hate wire nuts.

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YurAvgDroidGuy t1_jd7b3wp wrote

A large pack of wagos on Amazon from a container ship from who knows where may not have any certification. If you use wagos, I'd want them to be UL certified, a quality brand. I've seen some that are a stab type, some that have a lock down bar. The stab/push in type is just like back stabbing a receptacle. The lock down bar type seem to be better but pre-twisting wires and then locking down with a new wire nut is still the best way to maintain continuity and prevent a loss in amperage. If you connect a 12awg to a push in wago and have another 12awg wire continuing to a load, you may as well just use a 16awg wire to send to the load because that push in wago only has partial connection with the line. Think of it like this. Take a stranded wire and cut half the wires off on the stranded end and then twist it together with another stranded wire that has not been cut. The uncut wire will send the line power to the thinner cut wire and have a loss of power sending through the thinner wire. This is the issue with wagos, along with concerns over wires coming loose, wago falling apart, longevity, etc.

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PlatypusTrapper t1_jd7ot1b wrote

You’re right that there’s some crap that’s sold on Amazon. If it’s too cheap it’s probably crap.

The push in ones are used by some people but the internet almost exclusively recommends 221s (lever nuts).

The NEC is 99% about safety. Lever nuts have been determined to be safe.

A smaller connection at a specific point will increase the resistance a bit, that’s true. The difference is marginal though. It may get a bit hotter at the connection but that’s not nearly the same thing as getting hot along the entire cable run. The 12AWG cable will still be capable of transmitting 20A safely along the entire run.

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YurAvgDroidGuy t1_jd7zbu4 wrote

Good info. In the automobile industry, some of these computer modules are throwing codes for slight changes in resistance, for a frayed wire, or 1 strand in a bundle coming loose, very very sensitive. Obviously lights and small electronics are not likely to cause an issue in a home, where loads are not resistance sensitive, but if you have small resistance changes all over your home, and throw a toaster into the mix, a washing machine, a space heater, and these small changes in resistance in my opinion, just are not worth the risk of something happening one day.

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PlatypusTrapper t1_jd82021 wrote

Automotive wiring and building wiring is totally different 🤣🤣

You’re not going to use wire nuts in your car, right?

Building wiring is 90VAC-240VAC. By definition it has a huge range. Automotive wiring is typically 10.5VDC-15VDC (for cars anyway). Of course it’s more susceptible to resistance.

And as for safety, I watched a video where a WAGO 221 survived 100A. It only started failed at 120A and even then it was the plastic housing that melted, the connection was still fine.

I’m personally of the opinion that wire nuts are just as safe or unsafe. Even when they’re properly terminated they can still fail. This is doubly true when they’re used to terminate more than 2 wires or when they are used to terminate stranded to solid. I have personally removed 2-3 of these where one of the wires just fell right out of the wire nut 😂😂

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