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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixcazeq wrote

Reply to comment by Justinontheinternet in Vehicle pursuit, Hartford, with AR15, just crashed by guesthost1999

Oh the old “good guys with guns” argument? Look at the facts, most of the time good guys with guns don’t stop mass shootings, ask the Uvalde police

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thekingofsecrets t1_ixcplvj wrote

I would say that argument doesn't really apply to police. In general the police will arrive too late to do anything about it. The good guy with a gun argument applies to someone who is concealed carrying and is able to respond with force to stop the situation. There have been multiple accounts just this year where a CCL holder stopped a shooting since they were on site and able to surprise the shooter.

Two notable accounts from this summer alone.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/17/1111973024/3-people-fatally-shot-indiana-mall

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wowktv.com/news/local/charleston-police-shooting-victim-pulled-assault-rifle-on-party/amp/

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixcuwqp wrote

Thank you, I didn’t say it doesn’t happen, but twice out of over 600 mass shootings this year. You are looking at less than 1% of the time a “good guy” stops them.

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixe6zb9 wrote

That’s because they are stopped before they can become mass shootings…

Anywhere between 500k-3 million times a year guns are used in self defense. That’s a hell of a lot less victims.

Source: https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixe86zz wrote

Haha, I love the number 500k-3 mili? You might as well say we have no idea how many!

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixe8mg1 wrote

Found the guy who didn’t even click on the article. One, it spans over several years, not every year had the same amount, and two, many cases go unreported. They only show cases that were verifiable through media or police reports.

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B00ZE_TAN t1_ixea267 wrote

You’re right ,at the time I didn’t have to read it, I just think the huge difference between the two numbers is funny, because it is. The site you’ve given says they really have no idea, due to unreported incidents. Why wouldn’t you report a self defense shooting if you are a 100 percent legal?

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ZebraRaptor t1_ixexe5v wrote

I see where you’re coming from, but using a fire arm in self defense is not always involving the firearm being discharged. Most of the time just as soon as the defender brandishes the firearm it’s enough to scare off the predator/robber/assaulter/road rager etc.

So that’s where we struggle with the numbers. They were over several years able to pull data that could be backed up by media and police, but if the guy ran off, sometimes someone may not report it. Also pretty sure the self defense claims can be of livestock so if a mountain lion was threatening you or your livestock it’s also part of self defense using a firearm.

Never hurts to click an article, they often provide the context necessary to make judgement.

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thekingofsecrets t1_ixfe35a wrote

I would say you're referring to situations where there is no good guy with a gun. I've yet to read about a situation where a mass shooting devolves into a gun fight. There's either it ends immediately due to a CCL holder, or it goes on for 30 minutes until the cops show up. My take away from that is that it's a benefit to yourself and your personal safety if you seek out a CCL and training.

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