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blargleflarter t1_jcpal9b wrote

Finally, somewhere where my niche special interest can be informative!! Heartily agree with OP, trains are bitchin.

Mostly every agency and politician in the northeast agrees in principle that rail service needs to be better. the disagreement is over how much to spend over it and where the efforts should be focused on. But the conversation is happening, and there is common ground over the need to do something. That's new, and we shouldn't take it for granted.

But like all the other proposals for a high speed line under the Sound that have come before this one, it misses the forest for the trees. There's a bigger issue of equity that a high speed rail proposal has to be able to address.

Starting with the obvious, Connecticut is ridiculously segregated on a town by town basis that also just so happens to coincide with economic wellbeing and racial identity. A town like Fairfield, literally one of the wealthiest in the country, is right next to Bridgeport, one of the most under-resourced. and Bridgeport just so happens to be one of the most diverse cities in the state! that's totally coincidental, right?

High speed rail, or at least the North Atlantic Rail proposal, primarily serves major population centers in CT (New Haven, Hartford, mainly). Yet, most of the inter-regional travelers who would use high speed service are going to be, more likely than not, affluent. They don't live in the places that high speed service would serve, but in the catchment around these places (ie, suburbs). In other words, most of the people who use these services will either commute in if they live nearby or move into CT's cities in order to take advantage of the service and to avail of lower living costs than that in the destinations the train would serve. That's a recipe for gentrification and the displacement of present residents, folks.

Well planned transportation shouldn't reinforce the bad spatial traits of the past century which already cause us so many problems, from traffic jams to car-centricity. If we're gonna spend 100 billion on high speed rail, we might as well transform the places the project impacts for the better as part of the process and do it right, right?

I think that what CTDOT is doing by focusing on the improvement of existing transport infrastructure and the reasonable expansion of services is really important as a prerequisite to larger projects like high speed rail, and a necessary part of equitably planning transportation, which is what a state agency working for the benefit of all state residents should do. Without that baseline of improved and reliable commuter rail service (or bus service!), you'd basically have a reverse white flight back into the cities because of the new utility that HSR would provide and because of present suburbia's ability to afford its usage. But by building out and improving existing services, CTDOT is ensuring that the state's most vulnerable and under-resourced aren't the sacrificial lamb for this century's sexy infrastructure projects in the same way that they were for the 20th century's interstate construction.

Take what has happened with rail in CT recently and what will happen in the near term starting with Lamont's Time for CT plan. It's not funded at present, but odds are that it will receive federal funding relatively soon thanks to the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act that got passed and due to the New Haven Line being the busiest rail line in the western hemisphere. For between 6-8 billion, it will bring the New Haven line to a good state of repair while increasing travel times by 35 minutes. It's not high speed rail, but it's nothing to sneeze at, and would enable high speed rail to move forward sustainably. not bad for 6 to 8% of the high speed rail's proposed cost.

Similarly, you have the introduction of M8 electric locomotives on the Shore Line East which are reducing travel times and increasing service reliability. The line is also under study for extension to Westerly, RI and to Norwich, CT. Hopefully, all these improvements will encourage more people to use rail in eastern CT, and the more people who use rail, the more political pressure there is to make rail service better!

You also have the recently completed Hartford Line, which has exceeded ridership expectations even with the crappy refurbished diesel equipment it uses. CTDOT is currently working on a planning study for whether or not the line should be electrified. I'm not a betting man, but I would wager that it will indeed be electrified and have express tracks added, because electrification will all but ensure that whatever future high speed rail scheme occurs will travel between Hartford and New Haven, much to the state's benefit. The traffic and usage of the line will increase dramatically thanks to the greater frequency and reliability from electric trains, too, which in turn would allow for existing non-electric train equipment to be used on other rail lines. Electrification would also make 91 suck a whole lot less for the people who would continue to use it by causing a modal shift towards train travel within the corridor.

There are also CTDOT studies in progress around the feasibility of potential electrification of the Waterbury Branch of the New Haven Line. There was a study which recommended electronification of the Danbury branch under Malloy as well, but since it only would lead to a projected 5% increase in ridership I don't know how high on the priority list for the state that project is.

And how can you forget what the state is doing in terms of bus mobility and micro mobility? CT Fasttrak is quite literally the second highest rated Bus Rapid Transit system in the US next to Albuquerque's ART, and it's so successful that it's got a proposed expansion east to Storrs via i84's carpool lanes. Thanks to partnership with apps like Transit, CTTransit's buses are easier to track and use, and the routes and rolling stock are likely to be upgraded in the future following the current push to modernize stations. CTDOT is also trialing micromobility services (think like a on-demand minibus that comes and picks you up while serving the transport needs of others who have requested travel) that will give people the first reliable alternative to car ownership in a long, long time.

If we manage to bring our current railroads and buses to a state of good repair and do all these necessary upgrades we've been needing to do for half a century, then and only then can we start talking about regional high speed rail more seriously.

I for one can wait until we're able to do high speed rail to NYC right. The pizza's better here anyway.

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kayakyakr t1_jcpdvl7 wrote

In the end, we need it all. What seems to happen is that we chase the ideal solution while passing up lessor opportunities.

I think your approach is a great start. Low on budget to make significant improvements.

We'll need the flashy new lines someday, but the high speed line is more effective when you can get places locally when you arrive and it's also more effective with fewer stops. A grade separated 200+ mph rail gets you between NYC, New Haven, Providence, and Boston in just a bit past an hour. From there, local transit should take over.

On that note, CT is ahead of our neighbours in that way. Public transit in Providence is horrid and transit in Mass is hyper focused on Boston to the detriment of anyone in the west or out towards the Cape.

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blargleflarter t1_jcpieuj wrote

Can confirm Boston transit is horrid as well! I lived there for a year doing Americorps and on the day before I moved out the Orange Line train I was riding caught on fire. Good times.

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CiforDayZServer t1_jcpvf1u wrote

I lived on the red line in 98-00 I thought it was fantastic, I don’t think I had a single issue the whole time I was there. The only funny T story I had was when I was visiting we got out of the wrong T station and asked a cop for directions to the aquarium, he told us to go back in take the green line to park street then the orange line to the aquarium. We did that, 20m later we get out of the Orange line and can literally see the corner the cop told us to get back on the T. It was a 3 minute walk at best lol.

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Whaddaulookinat t1_jcpmacd wrote

> transit in Mass is hyper focused on Boston to the detriment of anyone in the west or out towards the Cape.

And what we forget that transit outside the 128 loop is also, to put kindly, absolute dogshit

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Whaddaulookinat t1_jcpkpuf wrote

I was about to make my own top level post but you pretty much summed up what were going to be my main points. It's shiny it's new it's "bold" plan but $105bn is A LOT of money and despite what we think out of NYS commuting into NYC is far more niche and will likely be until Midtown gets wildly rezoned which likely won't happen, we've pretty much seen the daily workforce maximum population of Mid Town and the Financial District/Battery just before the pandemic and that's about 2.5-3.5million people influx from out of Manhattan.

For much less money the FRA and state's could:

  • Fix the old swing bridges.
  • Ensure that the new Avelia Trainsets are the correct width that can handle the 6-8degree lean and not strike other trains.
  • Fix all the fouled ballasts
  • Rip out and replace the already out of date Positrak systems in CT, RI, and MA and get them certified quickly
  • Improving the existing Freight lines to upgrade and double track where feasible
  • Bribe the board of the MBTA so they quit, fuck off, and never touch transit systems again
  • Electrification of Hartford Line, Waterbury Line, and Boston/Worchester/Springfield, Providence/the Falls
  • On that point, more regional rail east west in RI, CT, and MA
  • Increase regional rail frequency
  • Light Rail in the regional centres and inner ring suburbs
  • Capital and operational upgrades to the bus system (gimme that sweet sweet signal prioritisation)

Only like, two, of those are "sexy" and none help with the LI issue but it would be a far better use than a high speed vaporware solution. And while a HSR project through central New England would be great, it just shows you how out of touch the people in charge are that they don't understand (or think that flashy and new is the way to get the feds to notice) how the people actually use the rail network in New England and that's as a regional people mover, not just a commuter service.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_jcqn550 wrote

RIDOT needs to go aswell they've been quite hostile towards rail...despite the popularity of it in Rhode Island and the ever-increasing congestion in the states gateway areas.

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tuss11agee t1_jcprq0d wrote

There was talk of Danbury extending to north to New Milford and also West to “Southeast” (if that isn’t confusing enough and connecting to Harlem line.

It takes 90 minutes to get to Manhattan from Danbury by car.

Train is like 2:15.

What else would people choose?

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Nexis4Jersey t1_jcqmunb wrote

I don't know if building a line to Southeast would be any faster since you have to go north and then make a u-turn and head south so the travel times would probably be similar. The tracks along the Danbury Branch are 40-60mph , you could upgrade those to 70-100mph with some curve straightening and electrify the line thus shaving off 20-30mins. That would service the large employers and cities along route 7 and 95 which is higher then routing via Southeast/White Plains.

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joeaguy t1_jcrfjv0 wrote

High speed rail with a few stops in big population centers only works if you can reach it. If the choice is gentrification and huge parking lots, then it is missing out on serving a lot of people. CT needs a better last mile. We have so many old rail lines that would make great light rail or rapid bus corridors to even out density without causing sprawl.

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johnsonutah t1_jcrs54y wrote

HSR lines through CT that have stops in CT (doesn’t need to be many) would turbo charge our economy. As it stands, outside of certain parts of Fairfield County, much of CT is looked at as an economic no-go for employers because it just makes more sense to locate directly in Boston or NYC…

You’re so worried about equity but you seem to not realize that our cities will simply continue to languish unless something changes dramatically. I think the state could do better with what it has too (just take a look at the area around Union Station…where is the development…what a waste) - but the reality is that our recent favorable budget position is largely due to federal stimulus and we can easily go back to a scenario where we are struggling to make it balance every year.

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