Le Creuset is more BIFL than the majority of items posted in this sub. Many members have pieces decades old and still going strong. Any of their cast iron enameled pieces also have a lifetime warranty.

My le creuset stock pot was made in China and also very disappointing. Now I just assume all their non French made stuff is low quality

that's the point

better buy used at garage sales

I really think some people just have unrealistic expectations.

I have Dutch ovens that are 10+ years old and are chipping and not looking great around the rim. And while there is a limited 5 year warranty on products, there are no free returns. So you are on the hook for sending the item in. Shipping in a heavy pot is expensive and this transaction ultimately cost me the cost of the pot plus $41. Buyer beware of the enamel stock pots.

Not sure why a chip on the outside of the pot is an issue. Only send it in if the chip is on the interior.

6 months for a stock pot life is unacceptable. Yes though, BIFL shouldn’t be literal, that’s a pretty unreasonable expectation. Maybe BIFL is closer to a decade of use? What’s the consensus on that one? Two decades?

It’s dripping rust water everywhere.

For the record my statement was more directed at the current state of the sub and not your particular post. I apologize. The enable enamel* isn't right on your pot but I think the hole is intentional to keep pressure from building in the hollow handle.

And I am here looking for something worth the price that isn't designed to fail and be discarded. I would use your pot because it is still better than anything non stick off the shelf at Walmart.

LC is feeling the pressure like everyone else. Compromise to be afforded by a sustainable market share or die on your high horse.

lol how is that the case

Omg, we had the SAME problem with rust dripping down the side of one of our stockpots. LC quality seems to be going downhill.

Why would you buy Chinese made shit? Don’t just buy name brand because it’s flashy

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I had some of these pots, I gave them away and bought All Clad to replace them.

Had some French made Staub, it's built like a tank. It's so heavy I could've gotten Lodge for the same performance.

Pieces decades old really say nothing about the product they are selling today, though.

You must have much nicer garage sales where you live than I do.

I don't see why people don't buy Lodge unless they really need the LeCreuset aesthetic. Lodge lasts forever and is very affordable.

That’s the direction I’m headed next. Good thinking.

Mine was made in Thailand. I didn’t realize they were manufactured in so many different locations.

Aren’t they like $300? I wouldn’t buy one if it’s made in China

Please don’t be offended, but that mindset is very outdated. Location doesn’t matter, it’s the companies specs. The Chinese manufacturers make the exact same parts with the exact same standards. If there’s a problem, it’s the companies fault not the manufacturer.

Have yet to have a good made in China product

Like I said, it’s the same specs and standards. The location has absolutely nothing to do with the product. If you have never gotten a good product then you should blame the companies specs.

I have a lodge enamel Dutch oven and while I do love it, it’s not the best. I got it as a wedding present 5 years ago and the coloured enamel on the outside has cracked and chipped in many spots. And the inside enamel has tons of hairline cracks which are really noticeable. Nothing has flaked on the inside so I keep using it but it’s not a BIFL in my eyes.

Sure sure. /s

Ill stick to spending money in my home country instead of buying China

They have the capability, the mindset of the manufacturer sending to China in the first place gives you a clue of their motives and why they will never spend the additional effort and cost.

Yes, you confirmed what I said. It’s the company and their specs. If they’re willing to use foreign labor they likely have less pride in their specifications and engineering. It’s not the Chinese manufacturers. Foreign manufacturers make the products they’re told to, and are actually much better at it than US manufacturers.

If they can make the iPhone, they can make anything. Virtually nothing is more exacting or complicated and I've never had one that was less than flawless. Often there is an association with production being shipped to China and a drop in quality, but that's because the company is likely trying to cut costs more than one way at the same time. Very common to see materials or specs slip at the same time as outsourcing or the brand gets sold to someone else who keeps the name and lowers the quality. Edit: high-end musical instrument manufacture is another good example, see Eastman

Says the person that owns more things manufactured in foreign markets than US. My credentials: Engineer in the manufacturing industry focusing on materials, processes, and products. Your credentials: probably some uneducated redneck who thinks the US makes the best products in the world. In my experience foreign manufacturers are SIGNIFICANTLY better at making products than the lazy expensive U.S. workforce…

Was going to say Staub is great and actually goes on sale. Lifetime warranty too if I remember correctly.

Exactly!!!! Preach!!!! The location doesn’t matter. Companies say make this, these are your standards. Then the manufacturer does it, it has nothing to do with “CHINA”…

Is it their enameled cast iron made in France or one of their cheap items?

Branding wise, “made in China” will need 50 years of solid performance to lose their current reputation.

I wouldn’t say better, the machines are exactly the same.

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I had a nice orange Le Creuset pot years ago that got a Corelle plate stuck inside of it. Unfortunately upn trying to remove the plate the pot broke. I was pretty flabbergasted, as it was cast iron under the enamel. Never bought one again.

Don’t they have a lifetime guarantee? Send it back and get a new one.

Oh little touchy 😂😂😂😂😂😂 keep US jobs in the US and buy US that’s my philosophy

Machines are the same yes, specs are the same, etc, but they make products faster, therefore are better.

That’s how I know ur full of it. You went from saying the products are bad to speaking on ethics and philosophy.

Yeah they are many benefits to buying US only not just 1

China is notorious for sub standard metallurgy.

You can say where doesn’t matter but when their is an inherent flaw in the source material and production chain not much the manufacturer can do.

But quality IS NOT one of them. It is a 100% fact.

Their cast iron Dutch ovens are often that high. This isn't that; it's enameled steel and like $100.

It's a good illustration of why it's often best to stick with a company's main product lines. They're known for enameled cast iron, which is high quality and made in France, but because a lot of people like the colors and want other matching pieces, they've also branched out into ceramics and enameled steel, which they don't make in their own factories.

For the non-cast iron stuff, you're mainly paying for the pretty colors. They didn't build their reputation on ceramics or stockpots and aren't the best option for either.

Not true, that is a pure lie. Raw materials used to make products is chosen by the company, it’s their specifications. Manufacturers don’t just get to do it their way. They do exactly what they’re told to do. If the metallurgy is poor it is because the company allowed the manufacturer to use it.

Fake news.

They will repair it and if that's not possible then they replace it. Manufacturer defects happen and hopefully Le Creuset still honors that long standing warranty

As you type on your foreign made device. I hate the uneducated radicals…

China can make to the same standards - but very often does not. Not all Western companies bother to be, or are capable of being as stringent as Apple.

Purchasing from a respected manufacturing location still gives you a much higher chance of getting better quality.

As a general rule, a quality brand that still manufactures at ‘home’ only makes their budget range products offshore. Canon cameras are an example. The top shelf stuff made in Japan, the ‘throw it out when it gets a lens fault code at 4 years old’ stuff is made elsewhere in Asia.

Chinese steel is also absolute crap (soft, and rusts if you look sideways at it) and that impacts anything made of that material.

Yes, China can make world class goods, but they are surrounded by a mountain of crap.

Buying something made in Europe, Japan, Australia or the States (most things) is a good place to start for getting long lasting products.

All-Clad is definitely the better option from a durability standpoint. Enameled cast iron is great, but there's not much point in enameled stainless steel, and going LC in this case is mostly about aesthetics. Adding enamel to a stockpot will always inevitably make it less durable than simple stainless steel.

Say whatever you want I’m metallurgical engineer, any projects where we source Chinese pipe or stainless components you get significantly higher “off batches” that are out of spec compared to basically any other source but India.

But whatever you’ve probably got tons of experience with the subject.

I agree with what you’re saying but you don’t realize you’re agreeing with me. China CAN do it, but often times companies loosen their specs on Chinese goods. That’s not chinas fault, that’s the company. The machines and processes used are often identical. As I’m sure you know, you sound smart.

Oh boy got em /s

I too am an engineer. Like I said in another comment. I focus on materials, processes, and products. I know all too well that they CAN do it the same. If they don’t it is the fault of the company that specs the product and processes.

I just got a Lodge Dutch oven instead of Le Creuset. Obviously it's still new so I can't speak to its long term durability, but so far the quality has been really good. I also bought it under the assumption that I may have to replace it within 5 years. But it was also a fraction of the price, so I could legit buy like 3 or 4 of the Lodge one for the price of the big brand name.

You can make first class products anywhere in the world, China chooses to do a shitty Job.

You want good steel go to Germany or France.

To be generous, you were suckered by marketing.

To be less charitable, it was partly your fault for having blind faith in branding.

If you want a stockpot just get a good stainless one from a manufacturer that makes good stainless.

Something that is widespread in consumer space is a company that has a deservedly strong brand in particular space deciding they can cash in on that brand in another space. As an example, Ridgid make great pipe cutters but there is no way I am buying their random power tools.

As a consumer, you may wish to educate yourself on this effect and be more critical going forwards.

This item from Le Creuset is transparently them cashing in on their name and style for enameled cast iron and trying to extend it to other random crap.

If Le Creuset came out with a vibrating butt plug next week, would you buy it? I suspect not. But you just did. This is roughly as related to their reputation for enameled cast iron as vibrating butt plugs are.

So why the fuck would you buy a pot made of thin sheet metal dressed up to look liked enameled cast iron but clearly a bunch of crap?

The power of marketing and branding.

I don’t care whose ‘fault’ it is. I’m not attaching a moral judgement to the concept. My point is that you are far more likely to end up with crap if it’s made in China.

Yes there are exceptions, yes the reasons are complex, but it is what it is.

They make it that way because it’s affordable. Not because they suck. People buy shitty steel, because it’s cheap. Not everyone needs world class steel. Price points. It’s not that they can’t, they spec it that way on purpose. You know that! You also know not every product is going to be perfect, maybe china isn’t the industry leader on steel. But the US isn’t the industry leader on enameled cast iron.

Because of the company…

Like I said, don’t care whose ‘fault’ it is. We can blame the Queen of Sheba if you like.

The fact is that ‘made in China’ = ‘crap’ far more often than ‘Made in Germany’ or ‘made in Japan’. That fact doesn’t go away because you try to apportion ‘blame’ for the problem.

Well I have more than 3 brain cells, so I don’t associate locations with quality. I look at the product itself and if it’s shit, I know it’s because it was specified to be that way.

This exactly, there is zero reason to buy anything le creuset that isn't enameled cast iron.

So you are literally admitting they make shitty steel. On purpose. So what exactly are you arguing? That they could do better if they wanted too?

Le creuset isn’t supposed to be cheap it’s supposed to be the best.

China is not where you get pots and pans manufactured,and you know that.
Any self respecting manufacturing company with a modicum of self respect and product identity would know that as well and not tolerate the quality drop.

The le cruset made in France is identical to the ones made in China and Taiwan period. As long as they are the same model and specs. Period. It is an Engineering fact.

I don't know if it's the best example. As I understand the iPhone production in china is mainly assembly and is being done by pretty much untrained staff hired straight from the Chinese countryside (see the recent riot). You are placing high quality components together, but it seems like a much different skillset to producing something more bespoke like a high end cast iron pot.

I chose Staub for aesthetics. They’re beautiful pieces. I waited for a sale and got a 5qt for the same price as a Lodge.

No more Chinese-made iPhones for me.

So they are made by the exact same machines, with the exact same source materials, inspected by the exact same quality control. You know none of that is true. But you are still arguing like it’s a fact.

It’s hard to have all products meet the exact same specifications in the same plant between lines.

There are very few facts in life, saying that two products from two separate facilities across the world in different climates are a 1-1 on spec is hubris at best. You obviously have much looser tolerances.

Ummm… Enameled stainless stock pots in general are not BIFL, it has nothing to do with the brand. You just bought the wrong thing from Le Creuset.

Just because Le Creuset makes BIFL enameled cast iron pieces doesn’t mean anything and everything LC is BIFL. I think it’s pretty absurd to hold any BIFL brand that has a range of products to that standard—Levi’s, Frye, LL Bean all have some products that are definitively not BIFL.

My grandmother’s Le Creuset cast irons are still going strong in my brother’s & my kitchens, they just require proper care, like any cast iron piece. I second the recommendation to go check out estate sales or garage sales to find a used one for cheaper.

It’s a Dutch oven, not aerospace. I’m done arguing with you. If it is the same product, then it has same machine, same processes, same quality control, same standard work, same specs, same raw materials, same damn product. If it is different it’s because the company allows it. Companies choose everything about their products. I’m not gonna sit here and let a metallurgist tell me about products, that’s stupid. I am a product engineer, you are a metallurgist.

Making cast iron cookware is surprisingly simple believe it or not. One of the easiest things to make on the planet.

You are literally sitting here telling me about metal, I’m a metallurgical and mechanical engineer. I don’t care if it’s your specialty in this instance you are wrong.

The feedstock is fucked that’s all there is too it.

The raw materials for products are chosen by companies. Are you not listening? If your pipe from China is ass it’s because it was specified to be that way. it was specced to be cheap. If you can’t agree with that then just go away. Go fuck a spectrometer.

Did you read the post? That's what they did.

It's one of the cheaper stockpots just like in OP's picture.

OP consider the Cuisinart multiclad pro. I got some and they are nice nice!

Yeah I believe that. I just don't think iPhone assembly is really an all encompassing craft either.

I have the cast iron. I don't have the enamel. That is disappointing that it's chipped.

I have 2 cast iron Le Creuset’s since 1995 without any problems. AFAIK those are the only ones truly worth buying.

Well it’s not super easy. Tiny electronics is HARD. I was restoring an old Gameboy, and man you gotta have surgical hands for it. I just mean small parts is a pain to deal with, I’m not an electronics expert.

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I bought a la trattoria dutch oven like 3 years ago when I was in search of a Le cruset for my wife and to be honest they have great craftsmanship that pot hasn't lost it's integrity after many uses

Engineers bickering lol, whats new. But yeah youre right. The company chose not to spec the proper material and the maufacturer used it to the detriment of the product. The company i work for buys bulk metal products from china all the time and they have their issues but we do it knowing it is that way vs paying 3x for a 1.5x better product. Youre right that they could give the manufacturer the same spec and it would be the same product. China is just as capable as france, but i dont think they do. They make it cheaper and hope the product gets by on the brand name alone. If you want the better pot buy the one from france cause they actually do have the proper specs and qc.

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Good to know, i was really considering buying one of these but this definitely gives me second thoughts

I'd second Staub, and also recommend Chasseur, less known here but actually one of the most common brands in France.

Yeah if you buy a companies “cheaper brand” made anywhere you’re gonna get crap to make you buy their expensive one. Made in China, made in Indonesia, made in India, doesn’t really matter.

A lot, maybe all, of their enameled steel is made is China and is not really a bifl product. The made in France enameled cast iron is though.

I thrift all of mine 🤷🏻‍♀️. U can get them glazed again. I save a lot and colour doesn’t matter.

I just did a warranty claim with them (#24 Dutch oven) and I only had to provide photos. I wonder if it’s bc someone else is making them and they need to go back to the manufacturer.

That’s good to know! Maybe it is. And maybe they want to inspect this piece to see why it’s messed up and/or recycle. There seems to be a seam on the interior handle that’s coming apart and the hole is the worst part of it. The rest of the pot is perfect. I had another one of these that lasted 11 years. The handles chipped a few times before it finally chipped on the interior. I loved that pot and expected this one to hold up the same.

My lexus IS was made in Japan. Best car ever. My 4runner, made in Japan. Flawless. My lexus ES was made in the US. Few little flaws thats fpr sure.. i know its a small sample but ill buy japanese before anything else..

For next time just say you threw it out. Worked for me!

All made with parts made all across the globe, often many of the same parts

Even if the materials are chosen correctly, they’re still made in China And in my experience China is hardly ever able to produce material certs that match spec, and US engineers look the other way. By the time you’re asking for certs, millions or billions have been spent, and often product has already been shipped. There’s really no bureaucratic way to unwind the mess that was made way above your pay grade.

Not true, that is false, and it is rooted in prejudice

Is there any other kind?

I've had my Lodge enameled dutch oven for nearly 20 years and it has one small chip on the outside. I love it and use it often. Got it for $10 on clearance at Walmart, and it's been the only pot/pan type item that I've had for so long

I’m just speaking from my experience as an SQE in automotive 10 years ago. There’s no prejudice everyone tries to cut corners, everyone wants a cheaper supplier, faster.

10 years ago🙄

I think that makes sense - see if it’s a design flaw or a manufacturer defect. My stock pot is maybe a caphlon for target? It was a wedding gift - I’ve upgraded a lot of kitchen stuff over the years but it’s still as food as new. Who would have guessed?

Their enamel is Chinese made and pretty hit and miss. Until they start making it state side I won't buy it.

They have production facilities in India.

Please submit this to r/productfails so we can collect data about how long products last and where they fail :)

Haven’t only the cast iron stuff from le Crouset been BIFL? Anything of hollow construction like this is per se not BIFL IMO. And furthermore doesn’t even belong in my kitchen by hygienic reasons.

But it's the same product. New ones definitely can have some defects, you can't get around that and that's why the warranty exists (which with Le Creuset is supposed to be for lifetime anyway).

Old ones are 'better' due to survivorship bias. The faulty ones already went through warranty claims back then, so only the good ones are left.

It's moreso the emphasis on quality control.

You can have whatever manufacturing requirements you want, but if a substandard product (because, as an engineer, you'll know that it's impossible for 100% of products manufactured to be perfect, no matter your Quality Assurance processes, purely down to random chance eventually) makes it past QC without actually being properly checked, that product which is defective in some way will make it to a consumer.

Sure, it's impossible for every defective product to be found, but a robust enough QA/QC system should be able to catch the vast majority.

Unfortunately if your QA/QC standards aren't high enough, and you say 'Good Enough', then a shoddy product will make it through.

Different parts of the world have different cultural acceptance of 'Good Enough'. Which means if the foundry that makes the steel buys in poor quality coke because 'Good Enough', then chances are their steelmaking process is 'Good Enough'. Then whatever raw feedstock they produce might not be great quality, but hey, 'Good Enough'. If the market accepts it, why bother making higher quality steel when you won't make more money and you'd end up spending more and reduce profits.

The casting foundry receives this poor quality steel, goes 'Good Enough', melts it down and casts it, but they don't cool it properly to ensure the right properties and phase structure. But hey, 'Good Enough'. The shoddy castings get a quick once-over, stuck in a box, get a QC stamp, and get sent to the factory that fits them to a final product.

The final factory sees the shoddy castings, but hey, 'Good Enough'. If they reject them then they'll have to slow production, and the foundry might stop supplying to them. They'd have to get more expensive castings from a different foundry. But if the consumers will tolerate it, hey, send it through, fit it, and your shoddy product gets made 'Good Enough'.

You can specify whatever manufacturing processes and requirements you want, unless you actually stick to them they're next to worthless. And if your entire factory doesn't give a shit enough about sticking to the process, guess what? They'll make shitty products.

China can definitely make high quality products. Anker is a Chinese brand of powerbanks and charging products, and they're pretty damn good. Only because they place a legitimate emphasis on high quality processes.

Unfortunately, it's cheaper to make shitty products, so as long as the market will accept shitty quality, the factories will continue to produce shitty products.

Dude why are you simping so hard for China on this post lmao

I'm seeing a lot of claims here with no evidence to back them up. You may be correct, but you haven't demonstrated that you are.

The order I made was for four items, one an enameled cast iron piece.

One item was missing from the box they delivered. I had to call to get a refund for it. The item was sold out when I ordered it but the website sold it anyway.

The expensive enameled cast iron item arrived broken. They required four pics to be emailed. Then I had to pay to ship it back. They are sold out of that color. I’m waiting two months for a refund.

I haven’t used the two other items I ordered. I’m so over LC.

I have continuously said it’s the companies fault. Everything you described is the companies fault.

Because I hate ignorant people

What? Le Creuset offers a lifetime warranty, you can check it on their website.

How can I demonstrate that I am right? That's impossible.

I don't disagree especially.

What I disagree with is your claim that something's shit because the company specified it wrongly.

If you produced widgets in Germany, the expected standard of the supply chain will be high, because industry there expects to have product returned or rejected if it isn't of suitable quality; both with consumers and business-to-business transactions. It's comparitively easy to get a high quality product from a supplier there; they'll advertise based on quality, certifications, reliability, and provable facts.

In China however, companies need to be a lot more on the ball; you're more likely to have a supplier push the bounds of quality as far as they can go, and skimp on things they think won't be noticed by the buyer. Because the buyer knows this and may well be complicit further on, it's just accepted as a cost of doing business, and as long as someone buys it at the end, who cares about the quality.

Western companies often have people with experience in Chinese markets who are able to source quality components and produce quality products. The idea of 'Cha Bu Duo' sums it up.

To be clear, I think it's a fusion of companies not being familiar with business in the Chinese landscape, and a cultural acceptance in China of somewhat lower quality than the western world would be used to. The blame isn't solely on one side's shoulders.

Even if you have common parts the assembly makes all the difference. Quality and defect tolerance is something I care about. Really? Ignorant? I respect your view, respect others'.

I wasn’t talking about you. You’re ok.

I disagree strongly, but I clearly can’t change your mindset. So agree to disagree.

I feel like a lot of previously go-to brands are just riding out the name while offering inferior quality products now.

You're assuming that any given manufacturer is in fact following the specs given to them. That's not a safe assumption in this case. Sometimes they do, sure, and sometimes they make literally the cheapest thing they can get the foreign company to pay them for and pocket the difference.

Yeah no that’s not real. Manufacturers make parts to spec. Period. It’s the companies fault for specifying their parts that way. Your opinion is rooted in prejudice and ignorance

10 years ago I got a Food Network enameled Dutch oven for $20 at a thrift store. I use it at least once a week and it's a tank. Zero Chips or stains, it's definitely BIFL!

That hole isn’t a defect, it’s a vent hole from the manufacturing process. The handle is hollow, so a hole needs to be there while the handle is being formed and attached to the pot. The rust is probably only there from running the pot through the dishwasher, but in any case it’s not indicative of a defect in the pot or anything that would eventually rust to the point of failure.

You might not like the hole being there, but I’m pretty sure that stock pot will outlast you, unless you run it over with a steamroller.

Most companies make you pay shipping costs for warranty claims. $41 is pretty cheap for a brand new Le Creuset!

Ultimately, I paid the price of the pot ($120) +$41. I’ve purchased many le creuset items for the peace of mind of a warranty, but if the warranty replacement process is going to cost money out of pocket then investing in the stockpots are waste of money. I’ll sell my replacement, and buy cheaper pots and replace those more often. I’d love a better option, I saw some mention going with all-clad as a better BIFL option.

I am not including other le creuset items in this logic, I’m speaking specifically to the stockpots.

Maybe 20 years ago they had better practises of Quality? I mean I feel like that’s always the case when people talk about brands from the 70’s or 80’s. My mom is still on her original dish ware from her wedding that is like 32 years old.

I don’t want to harp on all Lodge, I have a cast iron pan and love it. I actually just inherited my grandmas lodge pan from the 60’s and it’s awesome. Just not overly willing to get the enamel pot again. But I also am thankful I didn’t spend $500+ like some of the le creuset stuff goes for. I do believe the lodge pots are ~$120-$150 (Canadian dollars) so not too bad.

I, too, feel like the 80's were only 20 years or so ago 🥺

Same :P

not saying they are everywhere but you can find some in France when cities organise "brocantes"

What do you want him to do to prove it? Buy a 30 year old one and a new one and cut them in half? Send in metal samples to a material science lab?

It’s well-established that the vintage stuff is high quality, and the people who buy the new stuff seem to have similar opinions. I don’t see any reason to believe the modern Le Creuset Dutch ovens are subpar.

If anyone needs to provide evidence, it should be you. Our null hypothesis should be that the quality remained the same. If you want to claim the quality went to shit, the burden of proof is on you

You should have ended this argument about 5 posts ago because you look sillier with each and every comment as you try to dig yourself out of this hole.