LE CREUSET stockpot - not really BIFLSubmitted by crysardo t3_zoaeth in BuyItForLife
Rd28T t1_j0mivvu wrote
Reply to comment by Notsobigdeal in LE CREUSET stockpot - not really BIFL by crysardo
China can make to the same standards - but very often does not. Not all Western companies bother to be, or are capable of being as stringent as Apple.
Purchasing from a respected manufacturing location still gives you a much higher chance of getting better quality.
As a general rule, a quality brand that still manufactures at ‘home’ only makes their budget range products offshore. Canon cameras are an example. The top shelf stuff made in Japan, the ‘throw it out when it gets a lens fault code at 4 years old’ stuff is made elsewhere in Asia.
Chinese steel is also absolute crap (soft, and rusts if you look sideways at it) and that impacts anything made of that material.
Yes, China can make world class goods, but they are surrounded by a mountain of crap.
Buying something made in Europe, Japan, Australia or the States (most things) is a good place to start for getting long lasting products.
Notsobigdeal t1_j0mjftf wrote
I agree with what you’re saying but you don’t realize you’re agreeing with me. China CAN do it, but often times companies loosen their specs on Chinese goods. That’s not chinas fault, that’s the company. The machines and processes used are often identical. As I’m sure you know, you sound smart.
Rd28T t1_j0mkmbw wrote
I don’t care whose ‘fault’ it is. I’m not attaching a moral judgement to the concept. My point is that you are far more likely to end up with crap if it’s made in China.
Yes there are exceptions, yes the reasons are complex, but it is what it is.
Archberdmans t1_j0nj4bg wrote
Yeah if you buy a companies “cheaper brand” made anywhere you’re gonna get crap to make you buy their expensive one. Made in China, made in Indonesia, made in India, doesn’t really matter.
Notsobigdeal t1_j0ml41f wrote
Because of the company…
Rd28T t1_j0mlsl6 wrote
Like I said, don’t care whose ‘fault’ it is. We can blame the Queen of Sheba if you like.
The fact is that ‘made in China’ = ‘crap’ far more often than ‘Made in Germany’ or ‘made in Japan’. That fact doesn’t go away because you try to apportion ‘blame’ for the problem.
Notsobigdeal t1_j0mm2gy wrote
Well I have more than 3 brain cells, so I don’t associate locations with quality. I look at the product itself and if it’s shit, I know it’s because it was specified to be that way.
jobblejosh t1_j0p441l wrote
It's moreso the emphasis on quality control.
You can have whatever manufacturing requirements you want, but if a substandard product (because, as an engineer, you'll know that it's impossible for 100% of products manufactured to be perfect, no matter your Quality Assurance processes, purely down to random chance eventually) makes it past QC without actually being properly checked, that product which is defective in some way will make it to a consumer.
Sure, it's impossible for every defective product to be found, but a robust enough QA/QC system should be able to catch the vast majority.
Unfortunately if your QA/QC standards aren't high enough, and you say 'Good Enough', then a shoddy product will make it through.
Different parts of the world have different cultural acceptance of 'Good Enough'. Which means if the foundry that makes the steel buys in poor quality coke because 'Good Enough', then chances are their steelmaking process is 'Good Enough'. Then whatever raw feedstock they produce might not be great quality, but hey, 'Good Enough'. If the market accepts it, why bother making higher quality steel when you won't make more money and you'd end up spending more and reduce profits.
The casting foundry receives this poor quality steel, goes 'Good Enough', melts it down and casts it, but they don't cool it properly to ensure the right properties and phase structure. But hey, 'Good Enough'. The shoddy castings get a quick once-over, stuck in a box, get a QC stamp, and get sent to the factory that fits them to a final product.
The final factory sees the shoddy castings, but hey, 'Good Enough'. If they reject them then they'll have to slow production, and the foundry might stop supplying to them. They'd have to get more expensive castings from a different foundry. But if the consumers will tolerate it, hey, send it through, fit it, and your shoddy product gets made 'Good Enough'.
You can specify whatever manufacturing processes and requirements you want, unless you actually stick to them they're next to worthless. And if your entire factory doesn't give a shit enough about sticking to the process, guess what? They'll make shitty products.
China can definitely make high quality products. Anker is a Chinese brand of powerbanks and charging products, and they're pretty damn good. Only because they place a legitimate emphasis on high quality processes.
Unfortunately, it's cheaper to make shitty products, so as long as the market will accept shitty quality, the factories will continue to produce shitty products.
Notsobigdeal t1_j0pg6vy wrote
I have continuously said it’s the companies fault. Everything you described is the companies fault.
jobblejosh t1_j0pk57e wrote
I don't disagree especially.
What I disagree with is your claim that something's shit because the company specified it wrongly.
If you produced widgets in Germany, the expected standard of the supply chain will be high, because industry there expects to have product returned or rejected if it isn't of suitable quality; both with consumers and business-to-business transactions. It's comparitively easy to get a high quality product from a supplier there; they'll advertise based on quality, certifications, reliability, and provable facts.
In China however, companies need to be a lot more on the ball; you're more likely to have a supplier push the bounds of quality as far as they can go, and skimp on things they think won't be noticed by the buyer. Because the buyer knows this and may well be complicit further on, it's just accepted as a cost of doing business, and as long as someone buys it at the end, who cares about the quality.
Western companies often have people with experience in Chinese markets who are able to source quality components and produce quality products. The idea of 'Cha Bu Duo' sums it up.
To be clear, I think it's a fusion of companies not being familiar with business in the Chinese landscape, and a cultural acceptance in China of somewhat lower quality than the western world would be used to. The blame isn't solely on one side's shoulders.
Notsobigdeal t1_j0pkud3 wrote
I disagree strongly, but I clearly can’t change your mindset. So agree to disagree.
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