You just made me consider the age of the belt I'm wearing right now and I realized I've been using it nearly every day for 20 years. Got dang, how do decent belt manufacturers even stay in business?

I swear no matter how much or how little I spend I can only get 5 years out of a belt. I finally gave up on leather and am trying a webbed belt.

That’s interesting! I don’t know much about leather. Could it be climate you live in, or conditions you wear it in? I’m in a very cold, dry area and find I have to condition leather for it to not breakdown, in a way I never had to do in other parts of the world.

Are you sure you’re buying real leather belts? I bought my belts from AZ belt and I believe they have a 20 year warranty. I’ve had them for about a year or so and they’re all in great shape.

I can barely see it because of the picture cropping out almost the whole belt

And by "real" he means full grain not genuine. 5 years doesn't actually sound that bad. Before I discovered full grain I'd get maybe 2 years tops out of a belt.

It also helps to get more than 1 and alternate them, and hang them up when not in use. As well as use conditioner on them.

Not sure if my belts fall apart because they’re shit … or because my fat ass is asking too much of strips of leather

I bought my daily use belt from a medieval fair market 10+ years ago and by now it looks nicely worn in. No signs of heavy wear or damage while it outlived a number of pairs of pants. Just straight thick tanned leather. I wouldn’t want any other belt

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Try a belt from Hanks Belts. They are solid leather, super thick.

Most “leather” is bonded garbage that’s loosely sewn or glued together, which will indeed fall apart over time. These belts (and others like them) are solid leather, much closer to a saddle. (You ever hear of saddle leather falling apart in 5 years?)

Get an aker belt, I wear a b10 and a b13, the b13 was inherited from a friend I met in the service, he was the second owner, it was worn on deployments to Mogadishu and still looks real good after a meeting with some saddle soap. It's at least 15 years old.

My belts rarely last a year. Probably cause I am rather… padded ..with winter insulation..that I work on all year round

The only reason I had to buy a new belt is because I gained some weight during the pandemic. Just joined a gym, so I'm hoping I can return to my 10 year old Levis belt!

Wait, why do you have Levi’s belt?

For anyone else wondering, Levi is my son and he’s been looking for his belt for more than 15 years. This is absolutely it.

OP, identify yourself and return this property to my son. I will take further action if necessary.

Hm. Than I must be a rockstar on this sub. I’ve had my belts for at least 20 years

I have a couple belts from Simple Leather Belt co.. going strong around 10 years now... I bought a second around 4 years ago (Cinch). https://simpleleatherbelt.com/

The cow who died for it though, lasted a fraction of the time. Thanks factory farming.

Indeed. I bought a fancy (presumed not long lasting) belt from banana republic 7 years ago. And it’s still going strong.

Can confirm. My dad has the same belt and he used to beat me with it for years AND still wore it daily. Pretty durable stuff.

Op (purposefully?) cropped out the part that gets the most damage and usually breaks first.

Timely post... my Levi's belt gave up today after a good 6 years or so!

You have to get single piece leather belts. Ive seen double-layer $120 belts fall apart on the welt, but I'm on year 12 of a single piece leather $30 one that's still going strong.

Saddleback Leather for a solid belt that will last a very long time.

If you have an Amish community around you, go buy belts from their store. The last 2 I picked up (black and brown) were $17 apiece and full grain leather. I’ve worn them for 6 years and they still look like new.

Why no full picture?

I have a saddleback old bull belt. This thing is going to outlive me.

It’s not cropped in the Imgur link. Just on the mobile app

Got a belt from Hanks about a year ago and absolutely love it.

Same used to happen to me. I was buying ties on AliExpress one day and the seller also sold belts. I ordered one ($12 USD) and it's the best belt I've ever had, worn pretty much every weekday since 2015 and it still looks brand new. It has a different mechanism to hold on - a sliding latch thing instead of holes.

The store was called "Hi-Tie Men's Store", PM me if you want a direct link.

Honestly the thing is you can't go to a typical retail store and buy a leather belt. They sell "genuine leather" belts, but "genuine leather" can literally be cardboard wrapped in vinyl (so it looks like leather but that's it). Despite its name, "genuine leather" is actually the lowest quality material that can be legally advertised as leather.

I bought my belt from a biker looking dude at the farmers market like eight years ago, it's warped a little from the way pants pull on it but it's still going strong, and I honestly can't imagine it will break in my lifetime. I'm sure there are online specialty shops that sell real leather belts.

Leather is a very strong material, your body weight really isn't enough to break it, so if your belts aren't holding up then it's most likely because they're not actually leather. A good leather belt is a buy it for multiple lifetimes product.

I imagine belts are not their bread and butter revenue stream, belts seem like the sort of thing you'd manufacture if you're already manufacturing lots of other leather products and have materials that would go to waste otherwise.

They have pretty good belts I agree, but I never pay full price for them. Mine usually last about 3 to 5 years. After that the holes are too big to keep the belt tight or the buckles give out.

No way will any belt I own will last 10 years unless I never wear it.

If you're looking for a minimalistic, US made BIFL belt: GRIP6 is the brand to go.

I wear mission belts, and while the "leather" lasts around 5 years, the buckle lasts forever and you can easily swap out the leather.

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It’s a real shame Levi’s quality has dramatically reduced since

Double layer is fine as long as both layers are full grain leather. I have the Hank's double bison belt (two layers of buffalo hide, it's really thick) and it's insanely durable. It took a while to stretch and settle in but I expect it to outlast me. It comes with a lifetime warranty if by some fluke it doesn't.

I'll have to look into that one. I've had many, many double-layer belts fail from the welt ripping or just falling apart, I'd like to find one that lasts!

Well I assumed it was done unintentionally, just a poorly taken photo.

Not sure why you're downvoted , you are correct. Not sure why reddit broke the image cropping it

Ithaca?

My belts all deform in the back/middle, no matter the quality - even a thick hand made double layer leather belt meant for CCW use. Webbed belts seem to work a little better, maybe just me.

I'm honestly not familiar with that.

I had zero luck with leather belts before I discovered Thirteen50. I've heard a bunch of other people have great luck with Saddleback Leather belts.

The terms "full grain" and "genuine" don't really mean much, at least in the US. You might as well say it's organic.

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If you want a belt that lasts, buy a gun belt. Mine is from Crossbreed (same place I buy my holsters) and it's built like a goddamned tank.

Surprised you are getting so much out of it. Best belt i've had came from Walmart, it is primarily a Cordura fabric core and hints of leather on it. Have beat the hell out of it, zero maintenance and it's only starting to weaken a bit.

Compared to the other junk usually where the hardware snaps/fails first. Alas, they were canceled and no longer made. Should have stuffed my closet full of them while I could.

Some heavy duty digging turned up Tandy Leather had a contract with a company in Mexico? Making them many years ago now

Mine always fail at the little loop thing.

Reddit media gonna Reddit media

But full-grain leather is genuine leather?

Genuine leather just means something is made from actual leather and isn't faux-leather.

I know a lot of people commonly repeat that it's a grade of leather, but that's not true, it's just a broad category to give to all types of actual animal based leather.

Genuine leather just means something is actual leather and not faux-leather, it's not some sort of grade of low-grade leather like people commonly repeat for some reason.

Something like full-grain leather is considered genuine leather.

This, bought some pants & belts from them a year or 2 ago. The pants have held up fine but the belts are completely disintegrating.

A good full grain leather belt is built to last.

I have a belt I’ve been wearing for 20 years at least. What freaks me out is that you never wash belts.

yeah they usually sell bags and stuff too, unless they're buying the skin scraps from a company that has already used most of the hide (shoes, furniture, etc)

Got 3 years out of my Levi’s belt before the buckle snapped.

Really? I bought 3 random belts from a thrift store when I was 14 (age I started wearing them).

I still use 2 of them regularly today, 20 years later.

Why the fuck are people down voting this lmao it's funny AF

Need a pic of the business end, that's where mine always fail, damn holes keep moving and then blowing out or a cease break

Yes but if the best thing you can say about your product is it meets the legal criteria for being called leather, it brings to question why that would be your selling point.

There are grades of leather, and yes you could call them all genuine, in practice anything advertised as "genuine leather" instead of "top grain leather" or "full grain leather" is just meeting the minimum legal standard for calling itself leather.

You can definitely make a product that is 99% cardboard and plastic and 1% animal hide and call it genuine leather. Pretty much every cheap fast-fashion belt I've ever seen was built this way.

Actual labeling laws won’t let you label a mostly plastic product “leather” the worst leather you’ll see called “genuine” (if they’re not breaking the law) will be something called a “finished split” which is basically painted suede.

Calling each type of leather a grade is actually the biggest myth in the industry. You can't contact a tannery to buy "genuine leather" as a specific thing.

All leather is Genuine, all leather that's not suede (bottom split) is top grain and top grain that hasn't been sanded (corrected) is full grain. The terms encompass one another.

The breakdown you sometimes see calling genuine, top grain and full grain grades is actually more like: "This is the worst you can expect with each of these terms in the description"...but unfortunately people have taken it as each term being a separate distinct type of leather which from an industry standpoint is simply not true; you can't call up a tannery and buy "genuine leather". So it's entirely possible for a company to say "genuine leather" in their brief description and then say top grain or full grain (and even more descriptors) when you click further (this was the case with an Article couch I bought).

There are also makers in other categories that use it just to separate it from synthetic Red Wing is a good example with an excellent reputation and they actually own a tannery: https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge

The “quick and dirty” full grain>top grain>genuine really only applies when you can’t find more info about the tannery or company making the item. There are top grain leathers and even suedes that come from top tier tanneries that I’d take any day over “full grain” cheap tanneries making leather for some of the big “fashion”brands.

What most people don't understand is a vast majority of belts you buy off the rack are going to be made of "genuine leather". Now to the layman, this sounds like a quality product, right? Not really. "Genuine leather" is actually a classification for the part of the cow hide that is being used to make the product. "Genuine leather" is close to the worst in terms of quality. It's a marketing trick to make the product seem better than it actually is.

If you want a truly BIFL belt, go buy a full grain belt blank from a leather supplier and make your own. You will save a load of money compared to these fancy name-brand belts you'll buy at a department store with the added satisfaction that you are wearing something you made with your own two hands.

I’ve had my saddleback leather belt for over a decade now, and worn it 2-7 days a week during that time. It shows no signs of stopping, so long as my waist doesn’t get any bigger.

I haven’t noticed any change in their jeans quality. I bought 3 pairs a year ago and they seem to be holding up just as well as the jeans I bought 5 and 10 years ago.

Calling each type of leather a classification or grade is actually the biggest myth in the industry. You can't contact a tannery to buy "genuine leather" as a specific thing.

All leather is Genuine, all leather that's not suede (bottom split) is top grain and top grain that hasn't been sanded (corrected) is full grain. The terms encompass one another.

The breakdown you sometimes see calling genuine, top grain and full grain grades is actually more like: "This is the worst you can expect with each of these terms in the description"...but unfortunately people have taken it as each term being a separate distinct type of leather which from an industry standpoint is simply not true. So it's entirely possible for a company to say "genuine leather" in their brief description and then say top grain or full grain (and even more descriptors) when you click further (this was the case with an Article couch I bought).

There are also makers in other categories that use it just to separate it from synthetic Red Wing is a good example with an excellent reputation and they actually own a tannery (the largest in the USA): https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge

The “quick and dirty” full grain>top grain>genuine really only applies when you can’t find more info about the tannery or company making the item. There are top grain leathers and even suedes that come from top tier tanneries that I’d take any day over “full grain” cheap tanneries making leather for some of the big “fashion”brands.

It's a pretty lively farmers market in the city of Ithaca, NY. I've gotten some belts from a biker looking dude there. They're great! But I guess there's more than one biker looking dude selling leather products at farmers markets.

Full grain is genuine, but genuine is more often not full grain.

Oh lol, no this was in Maryland and I've seen the dude there years later so I'm pretty sure he's a local.

Does not shock me at all that bikers selling leather goods would be a common farmer's market staple haha

You got this! I got a nice expensive belt that I love shortly before I started exercising again, as of now I'm on it's smallest hole 😢

I had this exact same Levi’s belt. Had it for about 15 years. The other end with the holes is the end that gets dirty and damaged. My belt still worked and I loved it but it looked beaten up. It was warped a lot at the hole end and it was badly discolored. Not only did it warp out where the buckle was but it had also sheared so if you lay it down flat it curved up at the end rather than being a straight line.

It was a great belt but definitely needed replacing after 15 years.

>All leather is Genuine, all leather that's not suede (bottom split) is top grain and top grain that hasn't been sanded (corrected) is full grain. The terms encompass one another.

Yes, all leather is genuine by the dictionary definition of the word, however when you see "genuine leather" printed on a belt in Dillards, it's not going to be the same quality as top grain or full grain. It simply means there is SOME leather present in the product. These lower layers are stripped off and often times mixed with other leather scraps or bonding agents.

So yes, technically, genuine leather, top grain, and full grain are classifications of leather. Just like we have classifications of our skin (dermis, epidermis, and hypodermis). If you don't like the word 'classification', you can use 'layer'. Regardless, each has varying degrees of quality and you will not be doing yourself a service by spending lots of cash on a "genuine leather" belt stamped with some highfalutin designer because it's most likely going to bee poor quality.

I agree 100% that most goods stamped “genuine” leather are junk…but I’d also that most mass market leather goods you’ll find at department stores are junk even if they’re stamped full grain.

There are tons of exceptions to the “genuine=bad”thing. I’ve given you Red Wing, but all the time over r/leathercraft we get very skilled crafters from non English speaking parts of the world showing off some amazing creation and using the word “genuine” and some idiot comes in giving them a hard time for using “crappy leather”…they then explain that it’s some quality full grain veg tan and that their word for genuine doesn’t have the same negative connotation. You’ll also see genuine a ton on Japanese or Korean leather goods sites and some Europe as well.

Following your skin comparison: skin=genuine leather it’s the broadest term…the other terms have more specific meanings.

So everyone says that “genuine” is leather mixed with bonding agents and plastic: aka bonded leather but legally that product can’t be called genuine leather without clearly stating it’s bonded or reconstituted:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/part-24

The leather description of “genuine” in those “grades of leather” articles is called a finished split. Suede that’s been coated or painted and sometimes stamped with a pattern.

>we get very skilled crafters from non English speaking parts of the world showing off some amazing creation and using the word “genuine” and some idiot comes in giving them a hard time for using “crappy leather”

This is why people must use the context in which it is presented in order to discern. Regardless, I believe the marketing world developed that term to purposefully sew confusion among consumers. No one is going to buy a belt off the rack labeled "Scrap Leather" or "Bottom Layer", despite that actually being the case.

I have never seen a department store belt stamped "full grain"? Have you? I'm curious to know this... and how it could be junk (in terms of durability)...

Kirkland from Costco does full grain. Slide belts offers all 3 “categories” and I’ve had people tell me they’re all bottom tier quality (side point: if the same brand if offering all 3, run…they’re sourcing from the same cheap-o tannery…good tanneries don’t make finished splits.)

L.L. Bean did a full grain bridle leather belt (made in Uk) that had “genuine leather” stamped on the back.

My point is that these classifications are a shortcut for when you have little info on the leather or brand, not an “official system” like it’s often presented.

You are 100% correct about marketing…but unfortunately “genuine leather” didn’t start as a negative…my company’s tags from the 70’s-80’s say “genuine leather” as a positive. In the mid 80’s as more goods came in as cheap imports, low tier factories started latching on to “genuine” as a buzzword for quality, although real≠quality. The same thing is happening today with full grain.

The reason I always try to correct the idea that this shortcut is reliable is because full grain doesn’t automatic mean quality. It only means that the leather hasn’t been sanded…which is only a tiny part of what goes into quality. Think about it this way: all leather starts as full grain so if you toss out the other things that go into good leather you can produce “technically full grain” cheaper than any other type of leather.

I can buy great quality leather full grain or corrected or even high end suede for $6-$10 per square foot but full grain from China or Pakistan will cost me under $2.

I know these things because it’s what I do for a living, with a couple decades under my belt. I buy , use and sell leather…I can’t trust these over simplified “grades” if I want to produce quality products.

>Kirkland from Costco does full grain. Slide belts offers all 3 “categories” and I’ve had people tell me they’re all bottom tier quality (side point: if the same brand if offering all 3, run…they’re sourcing from the same cheap-o tannery…good tanneries don’t make finished splits.)
>
>L.L. Bean did a full grain bridle leather belt (made in Uk) that had “genuine leather” stamped on the back.

For the first two products, I am curious to know if this is a flat out lie. OR if they technically are full grain, but just the top half a millimeter or so and the combined with junk for the rest of the belt thickness.

For the L.L. Bean, that's odd that they would stamp that. Possibly "genuine leather" means something different in the U.K.?

I agree with you. They are being used a shortcuts. Like most things typically are when it comes to marketing. Language is intentionally manipulated to make a product seem more than what it actually is.

Absolutely brands can lie, there’s no one checking and people can’t tell the difference between lightly corrected leather and true full grain without a microscope. In fact one of the most famous “prestige leathers”, Horween’s Chromexcel is lightly corrected.

However…if we just assume brands are lying then full grain becomes meaningless as well and all we have left is brand reputation.

LL Bean was using the word “genuinely” like Red Wing…it’s like if you went to a fancy restaurant the menu might be divided into simple headings of “beef/sea/chicken/pasta etc” if you read under each plate, you’ll get details about the cut of steak and probably more…the fact that more details exist and are available doesn’t negate the fact that it’s still “beef.” Genuine is the broadest term and can be used legitimately, my take is to look deeper and avoid if you can’t find more info.

What's insane is I also have a leather Levi's belt I bought about 15 years ago from a Kohls and its still my daily belt. No issues. Not vouching for Levi's or kohl's, but just weird that it's lasted this long.

Levi’s stopped making quality items. I got a year out of a Levi’s belt, maybe 5 years ago.

My wife has a leather belt she got at the gap in 1999 that’s still going strong…kind of mind blowing, really.

My guess, failure to read the room. Buffoonery isn't held in high regard everywhere.

Sure, that was my kind of my point; no idea why I was downvoted.

I was just pointing out that was the person I was replying to made no sense, since you can't avoid buying genuine leather if you want full-grain.

The only way what they were saying made any sense is if they thought genuine leather was a 'grade' of leather like full-grain is, which is some nonsense that keeps getting repeated for some reason.

I mean, your didn't really say that. The point they were making is that "genuine leather" is marketing jargon to say 'yes there's leather here." It says nothing about the quality.

That's like Cheez-its saying they're made with real cheese. Sure cheese was involved at some point in the process, but the final product shares no similarities to cheese.

And in a sub about buying something to last for life. We want the real cheese.

Yes but “real cheese” is made with real cheese so if you say “don’t buy anything made with real cheese” then no cheese at all for you.

Same with genuine leather, if you say “don’t buy genuine leather” then you’ve excluded all real leather full grain or otherwise.

The problem is that full grain>top grain>genuine breakdown just is a shortcut that kinda works when reading brief descriptions but not a true “grading scale” as the internet portrays it.

Square/rhombus/rectangle thing…

Levis belt. Ok. On it

You guys are getting years out of your belts? I’m buying the wrong belts!