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nasanu t1_jaql88l wrote

Reply to comment by Yosyp in LAPTOP?! Yes, laptop. Framework, specifically. by Goldie1822

Its this attitude that makes it ok for electronic manufactures to keep disabling their products every few years to make us all buy new ones.

There is zero reason why electronics cant be bifl.

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Lord_Sirrush t1_jaqvhhr wrote

You're confusing two different issues here. Planned obsolescence and artificial control of products shortening life spans artificially is different than trying to design something that lasts forever. Do you know how hard it is to get parts from 40 years ago? Just because electronics don't move does not mean there is not ware on the components. Batteries die and corrupt stored memory, old capacitors leak acid destroying the PCB around the part, shorts damage multilayer boards so you cannot see the full damage. Faster digital speeds gets into RF territory requiring specific trace sizes for timing and impedance control, meaning repair by jumper is only possible on low speed systems.

In short the faster more powerful electronics become obsolete at their jobs faster. PCs fit in this category. Even if your hardware is good you will be out paced by software needing more memory and more processing power. This being said, there is no reason to restrict someone from fixing a bad circuit on their coffee maker.

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nasanu t1_jaqxfvh wrote

You don't even seem to know what you are commenting about. How is a keyboard going to be too slow? Is a metal frame going to be incompatible with future CPUs?

Also for a lot of applications not much power is even needed, so even if it wasn't a good ideal to be able to use parts of a laptop forever you can still get a long life out of an old laptop. That is basically what the entire Chromebook segment is. And things like USB are going nowhere but even if it does, the basic computer busses almost never change, you can still use PS2/serial keyboards on PC because when you get down to it everything converts to basic PCI busses.

As per electronics in general, I have 15 year old speakers, they are excellent and I see no reason to get rid of them. Why do I have to just because you say electronics aren't bifl? I have an audio interface that is years old and I cant see that being obsolescent since its xlr plug has been around for 100 years.

Seriously this entire sub exists because electronics were buy it for life, lightbulbs lasted basically forever and this cost companies money, so they made them die. That is why this sub needs to exist. Now you are giving the very reason for the existence of this sub a pass...? Why?

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Lord_Sirrush t1_jar0atu wrote

I would ask you to look a bit at my post history. I'm an electrical engineer who specializes in keeping old equipment up and running. A 20 year life cycle is good but it is still not what I would consider BFL. Even spare parts sitting on a shelf go bad.

Old programs used to work off of punch cards, and before screens outputs would be printed on long sheets of paper. You just don't find parts for that kind of equipment anymore. Instead you scrap it and build an emulator. Look there will be a time when the last mechanical hard drive fails and the last 3.5 inch floppy is forever demagnetized, and that is ok as long as you don't wait to the last minute to transfer essential functions.

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zombienudist t1_jar3zgd wrote

They don't have a clue how much has changed in the last 20 years. I have worked in IT since the late 1990s and it is laughable to think that a device from even 10 years ago would still be able to be used today and that is just because of advancements in the tech. The pace of change is slower then it was 20 years ago mostly becuase the hardware is so powerful there is not much more an average person can do with a device. So desktop computers are used far longer than they were 20 years ago but I don't have many businesses still running 10+ year old computers even if they are still working fine. I think they are conflating electronics like speakers with computers/tech stuff when those are vastly different things.

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Walkop t1_jarf64n wrote

It's not them, it's you who doesn't understand the conversation.

The conversation isn't talking about performance. It's talking about how the frames and boards aren't designed to be future proof.

For example, Intel could have designed a CPU interface that had a thousand unused pins. Buses that have massive extra unused width. Then these interfaces would last much longer, and it does not really increase cost of manufacture.

There's no need to constantly be replacing and upgrading interfaces. Interfaces themselves aren't complex to manufacture. They're nothing relative to the chips themselves. The only real reason is planned obsolescence. They could easily be designed to last multiple times longer than they do, and they just don't.

It's the same thing with soldered components. Most components don't need to be soldered, and they don't benefit from it, unless you're in a hypermobile device. The only benefit is to the manufacturer.

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zombienudist t1_jartzo8 wrote

The boards can't be future proof in the way you believe. They can allow for some forward capability as they usually do. But they don't have a time machine. They can't build something to meet the requirements of tech that doesn't exist yet. That makes zero sense, and you really don't understand how these systems integrate if you believe that. I mean why did people use horses and not just build and make cars. Because the tech to do that didn't exist for that. Do you really believe that the same board they designed 20 years ago could run a modern processor just because they knew things would get faster? Do you not understand that all the tech has to keep pace with that in order for that to work?

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Yosyp t1_jaqlzt4 wrote

Oh well, we should have all kept using vacuum tubes then.

edit: people downvoting me don't want any type of progress and have no idea how chips work... the greatly democratic Reddit

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zombienudist t1_jaryyvb wrote

That is r/BuyItForLife for you. I used to work in appliance sales and service for much of the 1990s. But make the mistake of saying anything negative against a speed queen or a top loader and people lose their minds. They don't care there is nuance here. That their needs might be different then another. And that your needs might be different than theirs. I would never own a top loader for many reasons but say that and you get downvoted. Doesn't matter that I have fixed just about every type/make of major appliance and sold them. People like to believe they have found some secret and can't take any negative things about that.

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Yosyp t1_jarzrrq wrote

I don't even know top loaders are a thing in Italy, never seen one used in EU context.

Some people are just incredibly ignorant and can't accept facts. Planned obsolescence is a thing, natural progress is another. You can't have progress if you can't abandon old stuff, and people with a grasp of consumer electronics all agree that we couldn't have had all the utilities and luxuries we have today with the technology of twenty years ago. Imagine thinking an 80' laptop would suffice for today... you couldn't even write emails on them.

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zombienudist t1_jas4qge wrote

People tend to see things in strange ways. They see a washing machine that is 30 years old and say "well it must be good if it last that long" But I know use is far more important than time. If the thing looks brand new maybe it wasn't used that much. Use of something is very important. Based on what I see here I think many of these people just sit this stuff on a shelf to look at it. Meanwhile I now work in IT but I must be the one that doesn't understand technology.

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