My mother's ~33 year old Whirlpool dryer. Still works amazing!Submitted by vocke t3_xtbjhj in BuyItForLife
DOE_ZELF_NORMAAL t1_iqpyjxn wrote
Reply to comment by The_Dead_See in My mother's ~33 year old Whirlpool dryer. Still works amazing! by vocke
I do wonder about the energy use. I had a 15 year old dryer which used 3.5 kWh per run and replaced it with a new one which took less than 1 kWh. With the current prices here in Europe it paid itself back in just over a year.
tree_with_hands t1_iqq2xly wrote
Thats what I was thinking. Looks rather short sighted to use a power-hungry never breaks machine with something which saves its own value within a year. Ecological, economical and logical it makes no sense. But people tend to ignore to see indirect costs.
HipHopGrandpa t1_iqql4me wrote
So it’s better to throw away a working machine and buy a new one that will break in under 10 years? I see your point, but when it comes to big appliances and old cars, sometimes “environmentally friendly” is more nuanced, when those new items have to be built to feed the consumer. That requires resources and energy and creates much waste too.
SweetAlyssumm t1_iqqru8y wrote
It rarely makes sense to throw away a working appliance to save something on power. Environmentally it is a negative. My dryer is 21 years old (similar model) and I'm not going to replace it to save 10 bucks a month on power. Of course my power is cheaper in the US than in Europe.
skarn86 t1_irdvs9i wrote
It is absolutely not a negative, environmentally of financially if you bother to do a little math.
10 bucks a month is 120 a year and it very quickly adds up to the cost of a new dryer.
About environment, it's tricky to find data on te costs of building a new dryer. But just look at the CO2 footprint of the EU. It's been dropping for decades, and it's not because people stopped using appliances. Simply the efficiency of new appliances has outpaced the impact of producing them.
And all that while Eastern Europe has been growing massively after the fall of the USSR.
Energy efficiency matters a lot. Just try and look into it a little.
And yes, the carbon footprint of the EU has been dropping even after you factor in how much production happens in China.
SweetAlyssumm t1_irezb24 wrote
Thanks for these thoughts. It's hard to measure environmental impact. But aggregate numbers say nothing about my individual dryer. Adding the risk that I will buy a dryer that will not last as long as my current one. There are many reasons the footprint is reduced in Europe that have nothing to do with home appliances. Industry/transport are the big numbers. And there are costs for putting appliances in landfills. The delta between my dryer and a new one might be rather small. Just because something is an improvement does not mean it's a big improvement. A new dryer in the US comparable to what I have is about $900. I don't think 8 years is quickly!
FloppyTomatoes t1_iqrny20 wrote
If you take the difference above of 2.5 kWh per run, and the average price of electricity now being well over 40c per kWh, you are looking at paying over €1.20 per run extra on the older machine. You would easily cover the cost within a few years.
throwawayhyperbeam t1_iqrpyhe wrote
How do you know it will break in 10 years? I’ll bet you anything some of these dryers that OP had broke within 10 years.
LeamNoran t1_iqs1ytf wrote
Planned obsolescence. Most modern US appliances fail in the first few years fairly consistently.
throwawayhyperbeam t1_iqs9f8e wrote
And your contention is that this did not exist back then?
klein432 t1_iqsemoy wrote
The repair parts for the old machines are way cheaper and easier to repair and diagnose. Modern appliances are very difficult to fix.
Carvemynameinstone t1_iqsm00i wrote
While that is true, you're also experiencing survivorship bias, only the ones that were built well keep on trucking for that long.
And the repair stuff, yeah mechanical switches are way easier to repair compared to something that's a mini-computer.
klein432 t1_iqt34g6 wrote
How do you figure? Most things break down eventually and need repair. Older appliances were much more repairable. I have had lots of success repairing older, simpler appliances that did break and need repair.
And contrast that with some horror stories about newer appliances that are near impossible/cost prohibitive to repair. There is a clear winner for reliability and longevity. As long as you are content with older feature sets and technology, its a clear winner. I have had many appliance people tell me this as well.
Carvemynameinstone t1_iqv2e6t wrote
Isn't that what I said though? Mechanical based appliances are easier to fix.
Survivorship bias means that you have the ones left that still work, a ton of the older appliances are broken which you don't see anymore.
klein432 t1_iqwfee9 wrote
If anything, the survivorship bias is in the OPPOSITE direction. People are dumping old appliances for some new shiny hotness, only to find out that it failed 4 years later and the repair will cost over half of a new machine.
Historically, appliances WERE repairable. Cars were repairable. That is the bias. The bias is for appliances that have failed and been repaired and still work in spite of a previous minor malfunction. And now, homeowners are all surprised pikachu when then new one doesnt last, and costs a fortune to try and repair or replace.
In my experience, old appliances are disposed of not because of they failed, but because people didnt want them anymore. I do home remodeling and I have pitched so many working appliances because the homeowners didnt like the way they looked, or wanted some programmable function. They worked fine. In fact , I try to make sure they find a new home because pitching old working appliances kills me inside.
I had an avocado green dryer once. I bought used for $50. It was probably 20 years old then. I used it for another 20, and sold it for the same $50 when I couldnt take it with me. Looked like shit. Ran great. I spent $35 on a new belt and rollers when they died. Took me 2 hours to fix. I have thrown out dryers in way better condition because the homeowner didnt want them. Not because of any functional problem.
LeamNoran t1_iqzkhtf wrote
When is your then?
Have your ever read about appliances ever? Using old appliances that still work here checking in. Not upgrading because everyone I know that has, theirs has died. Some friends can solder their stove back together. Had an old washing machine engineer that had to work at Home Depot because hail capitalism tell me to buy an admiral washing machine and dryer because they were the last of a working generation of functionality.
New ovens die in less than a year. Rental house with a dishwasher a few months old dies. Repair tech saying “keep this old machine because it works.” Look up people still using 1940s fridges today. Appliances in America today are trash.
throwawayhyperbeam t1_iqzztu5 wrote
> had to work at Home Depot because hail capitalism
Right...
skarn86 t1_irdv34u wrote
I did some rough math for cars.
Swapping a 15 old car for a new one within the same category, the break even point in terms of CO2 emission is about 300000km, say 200000 miles. If the old car is ~40years old the break even is much much shorter.
So by all means make sure you get a good amount of miles out of a car, but a 50y/o Mustang is just an ecological monstrosity and should be only be used as a show piece.
NeoChronos90 t1_iqq8778 wrote
Depends on how often you use it. 90% of the time you can just dry it on a clothline, dryrack, etc
tree_with_hands t1_iqqfd9e wrote
Powerconsumption is still the same per usage.
NeoChronos90 t1_iqqg3fq wrote
Yes, but if you don't use it everyday it doesn't matter
Jrhall621 t1_iqqmtwg wrote
Oh energy costs only go up if your doing the thing that costs more energy “every day”. Got it.
NeoChronos90 t1_iqqznmk wrote
Yes they go up if you dry you clothes in the dryer every effng time. with physics still in place, a newer machine will still cost you a fortune in energy that way PLUS the cost of buying a new one every 5-10 years, because the normal ones just suck now.
Luckily I bought extended warranty, so Beko is replacing mine with a new one once a year for 5 years...
An old machine, that does not brake, has no more cost than the occasional usage, which is negligible. Still, the POINT is dont use your dryer if dont absolutely need to.
Jrhall621 t1_iqrzo8j wrote
Ahh. I see what your saying. Keep the old one around and just use it sparingly. I got hung up on the “every day” thing, but I understand your sentiment now.
St_Egglin t1_iqrib32 wrote
I have a 25-year-old natural gas dryer. It does not use electricity to dry, only to spin the drum. It is still very energy efficient.
CeeMX t1_iqs06m1 wrote
Natural gas is also really expensive in Europe right now, so
Dead_Or_Alive t1_iqsef44 wrote
New driers break every 4 to 7 years. I doubt the energy savings offsets the energy and ecological cost to dispose of the broken drier and create a new one.
I’m sure manufacturers could build driers with modern tech that could last over ten years but the majority don’t.
tree_with_hands t1_iqsqzki wrote
Fair point
ohhellperhaps t1_iqtu83m wrote
Don’t underestimate the lack of consumers willing to pay extra for the more sturdy build quality.
skarn86 t1_irdwl99 wrote
You doubt it, but have you actually checked? You'll be surprised. Probably not every 3 years, but total energy consumption in EU and USA has stopped growing years ago, and not because we stopped using driers or heating our homes (well, until now, this winter is going to be tough). And this happened in the EU while Eastern Europe was enjoying a post-soviet growth burst.
Estimates hold even after you account for moving productions to China.
Of course we should also demand better quality and reparability from manufacturers. Hopefully some countries are drafting Right-to-repair laws that should change the landscape quite a bit, but it will take a while.
datactopus t1_iqqb4o3 wrote
Yeah I’m thinking the same thing every time someone worships an older appliance on this sub. Sure it works and god bless its sturdiness but you’re completely ignoring the energy efficiency measurement. Low energy consumption (and not a brand either lol) is what I’d be prioritising when picking my dryer / washing machine etc.
thrakkerzog t1_iqr1l7c wrote
How much energy is used in the manufacturing and delivery of the new one?
Both are a waste of resources.
h_floresiensis t1_iqr3v5j wrote
It makes me think of whenever the landlord supplies the appliances but doesn't pay the utilities. I was spending $25 a month to power a relic of a fridge, plus all the wasted heat from the single pane windows in a place that routinely gets to be -30. We ended up unplugging the fridge and going with a bar fridge instead.
In my mind anti-consumption/reducing waste includes utilities. We have finite resources everywhere and gotta balance that.
atxtopdx t1_iqr7rih wrote
Ah yes. Thanks for the interesting perspective. Also, it was a fun five minutes to imagine your life, and if I could do that too. Thanks for the mind trip!
nalc t1_iqqxigb wrote
The main thing that a newer vented dryer does is have a moisture sensor to turn it off at exactly the right time.
The actual mechanism isn't drastically different in efficiency - it's wire heating element coils that warm up air then it gets blown over the clothes and exhausted outside.
To get a meaningful change in efficiency, you need to go to a ventless. Ventless is like an enclosed dehumidifier, it pulls the moisture out of the air as it recirculates over the clothes. It doesn't get as hot but it uses a lot less energy. Plus since you're not blowing air outdoors, you're not also increasing the load on your HVAC system as fresh outdoor air gets sucked in.
Interestingly, a modern high efficiency washer does more for reducing dryer energy use than a modern high efficiency dryer. Those washing machines have more powerful spin cycles and the clothes come out with less moisture for the dryer to deal with.
DOE_ZELF_NORMAAL t1_iqr0kwc wrote
No, not really.. wire hearing element dryers (or condenser dryers as they are actually called) have greatly improved energy usage (as in a 3 fold from a decade ago). And besides that heat pump dryers are VERY much affordable now which have even less power consumption.
I do agree that a good washing machine with a good centrifugal function saves a lot of energy on your dryer. But that doesn't mean getting a new dryer doesn't greatly reduce energy consumption.
biggsteve81 t1_iqsay6d wrote
A condenser dryer is a vastly different thing from a standard clothes dryer. Generating heat from electricity is already 100% efficient, so unless you are adding a heat pump feature or a more accurate moisture sensor to end the cycle early the old ones are just as efficient as new.
DOE_ZELF_NORMAAL t1_iqsjzca wrote
It must be a translation thing then. Here in the Netherlands you can buy 2 types of dryers, a condenser dryer or a heat pump dryer. I have no idea what you mean with a 'standard clothes dryer' because in the Netherlands it's those 2. Even after googling I couldnt find a different type of dryer from those 2. Maybe the one you mean is so old it hasen't been sold for decades here.
biggsteve81 t1_iqski75 wrote
In the US most clothes dryers (old and new) use an electric heating element and vent to outdoors. Just like the one pictured in this post.
javaavril t1_iqtilnt wrote
In the US there are ventless condenser, ventless heat pump, and the, unfortunately, more popular vented super inefficient gas or electric dryers.
They are so inefficient they're not even legal to use in some European countries.
ohhellperhaps t1_iqtuut7 wrote
The third type (‘afvoerdroger’ as it’s called here) does exist in the NL. Googling for types of dryer (in Dutch) would have resulted in that answer…
iwearlederhosen t1_iqri6wp wrote
So does the moisture go into some sort of drain next to the washer drain?
nalc t1_iqrj49h wrote
Depends. More basic models have a little slide out drawer to catch it, like a dehumidifier. You just empty it into a sink. The nicer ones have a pump and can be plumbed into a drain.
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